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  1. #21
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    The LCD is from Newssor, Inc. so no detailed specs. They send a very nice one-page quick setup sheet and they were helpful on the phone but no specifics about the menus and such. This unit is a direct replacement that the factory CRT connectors plug right into (well, I had to trim on of the power connector retention clips to fit the LCD chassis).

    I'm going to make some chips tomorrow I've been jonesing for it after a week of sitting around my office writing quality manual stuff and calibrating gages LOL.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    So of course my first day back in business for myself my CRT goes wonky on my 2005 Sharp SV-2412 with 0i-Mate MB. It has the A61L-0001-0093 made by Toshiba. I had the control panel opened up to trace a signal to see what would be involved in adding CTS to the machine, and when I installed the screws after closing the panel back up, the display began very quickly rolling as if the sync is off or something. I can use any of the soft keys and see the screen changing, so it looks like just a video error?

    The only other thing I had done yesterday was Change parameter P7061 from "12" to "2" as per Sharp's recommendation for running the G05.1/G08 commands.

    I was going to pull the trigger on an LCD replacement but wanted to know if I should start tracing the issue back further? I tried power cycling and disconnecting/reconnecting a few plugs, but that's about all I wanted to do without knowing if I should go further or just replace the screen.
    Ok This ^^^ especially in red.


    Plus...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well, I got the display in and while it works (and looks great!) it goes out quite often with an "out of range" error. I'm thinking now that it is the card or cable maybe? TIE wants $720 for the card and I can basically use the machine as-is for now... uuuuugh. Newssor says the error I'm getting indicates a horizontal frequency sync issue, which makes sense with how the CRT was behaving.

    Good news is I've likely got a good CRT display to sell now! I'll just hook it back up to check it after I get the new driver card in and if it is good to go I'm putting it on eBay!
    This ^^^

    Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    It is really gonna be a kick in the teeth if it turns out to be the $110 cable after I bought $1200 worth of parts LOL.

    My experience with lab equipment is that most service techs just bring a pile of parts and then throw them at the machine until it works, but we always maintained service contracts so it didn't cost us anything but some time (and we usually had a backup instrument).

    In machine tools I wonder for things like this if a tech would have been a better option.
    PLUS


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    I did pull everything and clean it all with contact cleaner (that has treated me well in automotive racing applications). I just tihnk it is super weird that this manifested when I shut the control which just so happens to move the cable.

    I checked continuity on all pins and it was good to go, and wiggled everything around while watching the screen. Intermittent problems are the worst.
    This ^^^^

    Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well... new card solved the problem. For like 20 minutes. So the only things left I can think of are the cable and then the connections on the main board in the back since all other machine functionality seems to be intact.

    Where do I get a new cable made up? I really don't want to fish this thing through the cabinet so I am considering and abandon-in-place approach coupled with a new cable that I can run outside the normal loom.

    I really wanted to make some chips this weekend; I need to flesh out the gallery on the new website.
    THIS ^^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Yes, very odd for a cable and board to fail at the same time. One thing to keep in mind is that the cables are made by the machine builder or a sub-contractor in 99.99% of all Fanuc equipped machines. That is one of the areas that differentiate first rate builder from budget builders. I've worked on lots of machines where many of the connectors had cold solder joints and the associated troubles that comes with them. Low quality cable is another common cost cutting measure that lets a machine make it through its first few years OK, but results in troubles long term.
    Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Everything looks squared away in the connector at least (as far as best wiring practices) but the quality of the cable itself is unknown to me. The 0i-Mate MB connection manual does identify that this cable was to be supplied by the MTB, though it also gives a part number for a 5m long cable of this type; A02B-0120-K819. FANUC listed this in an older catalog as $220 in like 2008 so it may be something that can be purchased directly from them.

    I've got my eye on an older Matsuura that if I can fit it, I may sell my Sharp and pick it up. A few years older but with less hours and a much, much higher quality machine with better controller, etc. The reason I ended up with the Sharp is it is the only machine that would fit under my garage door header without cutting things apart. We had to pull the Z-axis servo to do so and I had about 1/4" top and bottom total clearance... my riggers are fantastic!

    I should probably have some purchase orders in hand first LOL
    Plus


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Alright I've figured out what the problem is I think but no idea how to fix it. I got my scope working and the cause is that the vsync signal will hold at 61Hz, and then randomly drop to 30.5Hz, then jump to 61Hz again. Signals are all clean; hsync looks great at 25kHz.

    So what is causing the vsync to jump frequency?

    I'm very scared that I need to replace the main board and CPU board
    .
    THIS ^^^^


    plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well, maybe worse than having it broken is now it is working and I don't know why. I reflowed the main board connectors and then played around in the LCD menu, including doing a factory reset on that, and now it has been working for at least an hour while I made some chips to see if it would keep up. The scope was still showing the vsync dropping to 48Hz from 61Hz but the screen stopped turning off when it happens.

    I'm going to stay on it but now I'd feel like an asshole selling it if I don't know that it may go tango uniform a day after someone else owns it.

    I welcome any other input, especially from those who have futzed with DIY'ing their own LCD setups.

    THIS ^^^

    So I don't know the exact composition and signal scheme you are using and how that relates to cabling.

    But IME with something that's actually going at something like 24 KHZ (basically a radio signal ) shielding length and quality of cables can be important. Continuity is one thing but really you need to think of the whole cable assembly almost more like a higher bandwidth "Wave guide".

    I'm guessing the Fanuc "Video" driver board puts out an interlaced signal at approx. 30HZ (PAL -ish) (Phase alternating lines) with that interlace that creates an effective 60HZ with that Odd and even line offset interlace.

    So seems that one of your interlaced fields is intermittently dropping out hence the 30HZ vs. 60 HZ signals.

    Common to the driver board electronics on LCD displays they will hunt out refresh rate's and synch signals if anything changes , for example a minor power interruption or even switching from AC power supply to DC / battery (in more general applications).

    Depending on signal driving scheme / and format a BAD CABLE can cause fields to drop out...

    Electronically the backside of a CNC control cabinet is very noisy and good shielding would be important for high frequency signals etc.

    Normally a CRT would be more robust and chill about noisy / rough signals but the Digital driver boards for LCDs are a bit more squiggy/ fussy and schizophrenic about slightly wonky signal input.

    @Rick_F
    sounds like you have a GOOD handle on all this (I understand the denial factor for what may need to be replaced / already spent etc. ).

    To me it does not seem likely that the driver/ video board on the fanuc control would randomly drop interlaced fields * ASSSUMING it is an interlaced signal.

    Good and well implemented cabling can be more expensive than what one would want to pay. But on the other hand it is kinda mind numbingly low res output lol , but still your LCD new display (as your instincts have determined) will need a clean signal without interruptions.

    + Connector on the video driver board of your machine. (Hence you wiggling stuff about).

    Your machine is not old enough to have tin-wiskering tiny solder beasties causing havock in your machine I assume.

    Btw where are you connecting your scope to ?

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    I'm grounding the scope to the 0V on the screen end of the cable and then hooking one channel to Vsync and one to Hsync to overlay them. I did the same when I was looking at the output from the video card directly with the cable unplugged but used the grounded surround of an unpopulated connector for the ground. I'm getting the same results (wandering frequency) from the card directly, through the cable, and through the cable with the cable hooked to the LCD (circuit completed and screen running).

    Trust me, these things aren't nearly as electronically noisy as the race car stuff I'm used to. LOL The cable does have individual shields for each internal wire, plus the whole thing is shielded. The main shield is not grounded on the screen end (good!) but the individual shields are (maybe not good!). I may dig into it a bit more or may just let this (currently) sleeping dog lie for now.

    Whatever I did to play with the phase of the monitor (instead of letting it auto-tune) seems to be working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    I'm grounding the scope to the 0V on the screen end of the cable and then hooking one channel to Vsync and one to Hsync to overlay them. I did the same when I was looking at the output from the video card directly with the cable unplugged but used the grounded surround of an unpopulated connector for the ground. I'm getting the same results (wandering frequency) from the card directly, through the cable, and through the cable with the cable hooked to the LCD (circuit completed and screen running).

    Trust me, these things aren't nearly as electronically noisy as the race car stuff I'm used to. LOL The cable does have individual shields for each internal wire, plus the whole thing is shielded. The main shield is not grounded on the screen end (good!) but the individual shields are (maybe not good!). I may dig into it a bit more or may just let this (currently) sleeping dog lie for now.

    Whatever I did to play with the phase of the monitor (instead of letting it auto-tune) seems to be working.


    No worries I totally understand.

    So if the frequency dropping / halving is coming from the card then (my hunch ) would be that the one half of the interlace circuitry is intermittently dropping out hence 30-ish HZ versus 60-ish.

    2005 is not that old , wondering when SHARP switched more constantly to LCD monitors / phased out CRTs?

    For another time perhaps.

    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________


    * Yeah I forget that race cars with spark ignition systems are electronically very noisy … I remember the CB radio craze (Citizen's Band Radio) in the UK after the movie "Convoy" came out and "Smokey and the Bandit" (I was very young then) + the efforts you have to go to suppress sparky spark transmissions.

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    I’m thinking most likely your CRT went bad and the replacement LCD is meant for slightly newer Fanuc’s such that it’s horizontal frequency specs are just on the border of being low enough Hz to match your video output. I have a some experience replacing CNC crt with lcd and have encountered that issue before where it “sort of” works but not quite. The older the control the lower the horizontal Hz is.

    Bad cable highly unlikely... never had a bad cable in decades of CNC repairs.

    Maybe you said already but is this color or mono ?

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    It was a mono and even on the new (color-capable) LCD if I go in and change the parameter for color it won't take LOL.

    I think part of this is it being the 0i-Mate. These are really stripped down. I think Sharp kept using CRTs for the next several years after this and I don't know when you could finally get a USB on them, but I think on the 0i-Mate MD is when there was finally a card slot up front? It has been awhile since I looked at all that.

    Incidentally, FANUC has a cable in stock for $236, but I will probably just button the stock one back up now that the machine has run for a few days without issue.

    I may try to swap my old video card in now that the screen is working just to see if it works now; I am hesitant to even open the cabinet! LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    <snip>

    I may try to swap my old video card in now that the screen is working just to see if it works now; I am hesitant to even open the cabinet! LOL
    LOL,

    Yup don't open it, don't look at , don't even think about … Do that for long enough and 'It" will forget that it ever had a problem...

    If you do accidentally happen think about it , send it some good and reassuring vibes …

    Yup, should be good for another ten years !

    I guess opening the cabinet in the first place reminded the machine that all is was not well ;-)

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________

    Yup that's not a "Nice" price for a cable. Some pro high bandwidth video cables that are long are super expensive + signal drivers.

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    So, here's where I am with this. I am still getting the screen dropping out randomly. It seems to be more likely the longer the machine is on, but Monday it happened as soon as I MDI'd my warmup program. It seems completely random.

    The original CRT actually works - I verified this and it looks great LOL. But it drops out just like the LCD.
    The cable is new
    The VGA driver board is new
    The frequency drop-out looks to have been an artifact of the refresh/trigger on my scope. It is holding very steady at 54.9Hz (supposed to be 55Hz) and 24kHz. These match the LCD's on screen display numbers.

    I spoke with a local repair company that fix a lot of FANUC machines, and he suggested I look at the power.
    I checked the power (traced the 24V) from the 220V to 24V/110V transformer all the way up to the front, and everything is right at 23.8-23.9V.
    I don't know what a VGA R/G/B signal looks like, but I'm getting signal in the low mV range on all three. The vsync/hsync signals are in the 1-2V range based on the scope ranging but I didn't look at RMS (I can).
    My mains supply is a 242V rock steady. The tech said I might need to transform this down to 208-220V. There is no nameplate marking on this machine anywhere with the voltage range and kVa rating that I can find, but the manuals do have a passing note of 220V and 15kVa.

    So now the only things I haven't replaced in this particular signal chain are the CPU board and the main board. My impulse is to quit machining altogether and go back to making pharmaceuticals for a living, but I'm going to call the machinery dealer where I bought it and see if their guy wants to come take a look (and maybe make an offer). I may call the electrician and see if he wants to source a transformer for me.

    *sigh*

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    Anyone know how one goes about testing the line reactor? I'm going to just keep pouring through the power supply all the way through to the monitor with a fine toothed comb (well actually with a multimeter set on the fine toothed comb setting which I think is expressed in mV?).

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    This is mean, and so I apologize ahead of time.

    I am SOoooo glad I bought a Brother....

    Payments are tough, but take 5 minutes and a scrap piece of paper and write yourself a bill for the time spent on this job at $75/hr.

    My old machine was having issues with the air manifold that did the tool changes. Parts were obsolete, and I couldn't find much information. Couldn't find spares. I spent a saturday and sunday working on them. I got it working... sorta. When I got the call from my Brother salesman about a deal that I would be stupid to pass up... that time spent working on the machine, and not making chips, weighed heavily on my decision. The payment is certainly a weight around my neck, and there have been a couple months I have had to pull money from savings to make the payment. That isn't on the brother, it is because of my business and the type of work I do.

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    Trust me if I had open POs worth more than a few hundred bucks right now I would have bought an S700 that came on the market last week in Chicago. I'm talking to some guys about Brothers with the A00 and C00 controllers but need to take a look and see what kind of capabilities they had. I'm sure they were better than FANUC without having to look.

    Also, Yamazen service LOL.

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    So the tech came by today and I have a power supply for the main board on order (actually I had preemptively ordered it; I found one for $140 shipped!), and I've got some capacitors on order to replace a few here and there before ordering a new main PCB. I'm also going to add an additional ground to the LCD directly.

    The electrician is coming next week to look at installing a transformer to get me from 240V down to 208-220V just to rule that out.

    If this stuff doesn't sort it out then the last resort is the main PCB.

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    My experience with 20+ Fanucs is they like running on 200-210 volts way, way better than 220+

    If you have all the taps set for 220V you can run it OK on voltage up to about 235V. Past that you will have frequent bad shit happening.

    DC power supplies are typically adjustable. If you are seeing 23.9 volts try bumping to 24.1 or so.

    I have a machine that if the 5V bus gets under 5.00 it goes wonky. 5.01v and all is perfect.

    In my world, 242 volts means you need a 240 delta to 208 wye transformer. Not an option.

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    If you are using a Phase Perfect, use 1 buck boost transformer on the single phase input of the Phase Perfect. My single phase is usually around 247 volts and that is what i did to lower it.

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    The phase perfect outputs delta at the same voltage as the input so I think transforming on the input is the way to go. I've got my electrician coming by to take a look and there is a local place that sells refurbished dry transformers so I should be able to get this done for a reasonable cost.

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  21. #37
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    So this morning I replaced another cap on the main board's power supply sub-board and fired her up and it seemed to work, then after a few minutes I turned on the work light and disengaged the e-stop and the screen started to do its thing again. It slowly flickers and fades to nothing. Not sure if that means anything. Anyways, I've got a few caps to try out on the main board and after that I am going to have to wait until the new power supply sub board gets here. If that doesn't work, then I need a main board I think.

    EDIT- okay so what is a buck/boost transformer doing? Because I have a 15kVA load here and that calculator is recommending a 3kVA transformer?

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    Okay I've got it figured out. I can pick up what I'd need for like $80 shipped off eBay. 1.5kVa 240V PW, 24V SW which will bring me down to 216V and be enough to run my current machine (no pun intended).

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    Your machine ran without a problem when you first brought it home? The high voltage most likely over stressed a component which caused your problem. So after you lower your incoming voltage your problem won't go away. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. I would be checking the capacitors on all of the circuit boards with a magnifying glass. Good luck.

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    That's my theory, and the tech agreed. I am waiting on Amazon (damn I miss Radio Shack) to deliver the last few capacitors I need to chase that down.


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