FANUC CRT display issues - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I never thought I would miss Radio Shack but the convenience was nice. Electronic Supply by Industrial Electronics in Milwaukee Wisconsin : Potter Brumfield, Radio Shack Stores in Milwaukee Industrial Electronics by Ross on 92nd street just south of Beloit road is an option in an emergency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    I never thought I would miss Radio Shack but the convenience was nice. .....
    Me too. Over the years, I have found parts at Radio Shack lots of times to get someones machine going again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Me too. Over the years, I have found parts at Radio Shack lots of times to get someones machine going again.
    And then the bad part, you have to check out. Radio Shack "what is your phone number" , me "1-800-cash"

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    I dug up a copy of the 0i-B connection manual and found that the CRT can be powered from the CNC or an external power supply at the machine builders choice. Do you know which way your machine is set up?

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    The power is sent from the main PCB in the back to somewhere in the cabinet with all the relays and breakers, and split from there into the different places including the CRT. So there is one cable somewhere from the huge terminal strip area going to the CRT. I haven't traced it specifically but I certainly can. All I did was verify low noise and no shorts that I could find on the 24V and 24P. I really don't want to have to pull every one of those terminals and then plug them back in one at a time to find a culprit. I am really hoping it is the power supply on the main board.

    Still no power supply today in the mail...

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    Okay, so I got my transformer in... still waiting on that power board. I actually have orders waiting at this point but not enough $ to justify getting a tech on site.

    Here is the transformer nameplate and pictures of the leads (the connections are just how I got it from the last user, don't pay attention to that configuration):








    So the Phase Perfect only sees L1, L2, and Equipment Ground, so I think I can just hook this up on either L1 or L2 and call it a day?

    I found at least one thread on the forum where someone wanted to buck both L1 and L2 relative to neutral but I don't really "get" that.

    I can post this in the electrical section as well but was hoping someone would be able to help me out. My understanding of that diagram I feel like I would be hooking up things that shouldn't touch LOL.

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    I have been running a single buck-boost transformer to L1 for over 15 years. If you are running off your main panel, neutral and ground are bonded. Why don't you contact Phase Perfect to make sure?

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    It is a sub panel so it has its own safety grounding rods but the equipment ground is not bonded to neutral until back at the main supply at the house as required by code.

    I found a few really easy to follow diagrams that match this transformer and everything makes sense to me now (from a connection standpoint, still no clue how the magic pixies in that box eat 240V and crap 218V).

    So, this is embarrassing but I may have been misunderstanding what the "power supply" was in this machine. I thought it was GS1 which is the 24V switching supply, but it looks like that term is also used for the power supply sub-board on the main PCB in the controller, as well as what I'm coming to understand may be the "main" power supply which is housed in the servo amp box. I hadn't even looked at that, but now that I have there is an LED that is supposed to indicate remaining voltage (the little sticker says it could be >20min before it is safe) that is not on when the power is on or off. I have to look and see if I can check voltage at that LED without pulling it from the circuit (in case the LED is just fried) but I may have found where the problem is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    .......So, this is embarrassing but I may have been misunderstanding what the "power supply" was in this machine. I thought it was GS1 which is the 24V switching supply, but it looks like that term is also used for the power supply sub-board on the main PCB in the controller, as well as what I'm coming to understand may be the "main" power supply which is housed in the servo amp box. I hadn't even looked at that, but now that I have there is an LED that is supposed to indicate remaining voltage (the little sticker says it could be >20min before it is safe) that is not on when the power is on or off. I have to look and see if I can check voltage at that LED without pulling it from the circuit (in case the LED is just fried) but I may have found where the problem is?
    Having multiple power supplies is so common as to be universal in CNC machines. The Fanuc CNC power supply is usually only used to power the control itself and sometimes input devices (limit switches, prox sensors, etc.). A third party power supply is typically used to power output devices (solenoids, relays, indicators and contactors).

    Then there will be servo and spindle power supplies. These power supplies provide high voltage DC power to the servo and spindle drives DC bus circuits. The DC bus voltage will be >300VDC and has a few large electrolytic caps that need to discharge before you go in there. That's the reason for the note and LED indicator. The DC bus power supplies will not have anything to do with your CRT issue. Unless you are having alarms about low or high voltage or high current on the DC bus, I'd stay out of there.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, for the 0iB series controls, Fanuc allows the CRT to be powered by the CNC power supply or a third party external power supply. The choice is left to the builder. You will need to figure out how your builder chose to power the CRT to determine if a power issue is causing your screen issue.
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 10-18-2019 at 03:28 PM. Reason: add content and clear up some things

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    So I traced everything I could and as far as I can tell, there is only one source of 24V DC power in the machine, and that is a 24V DC Switching power supply.

    I can try to scan a few pages of the electrical manual if that would help?

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    Spent a bit more time looking at the hardware connection manual for the 0iB series. 24VDC is input to the CNC at connector CP1 and output at connector CP2. The connection diagram example shows this going to I/O devices. Internal to the CNC is a DC-DC conversion circuit that provide the voltages to run the CNC (3V 5V 12V -12V whatever). So it would seem that your CRT must be powered by that switching supply, but is it connected external to the CNC or internal via the connection CP2? If your wiring diagrams are good it should show how they did that. I'd guess that CP2 might be just a "pass thru" from CP1, but none of the 0iB info I have show that level of detail. It may be "conditioned" in the DC-DC power circuit in the CNC. I can not find anything to support that idea either.

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    Best I can figure the 5V is generated on the main board's power supply sub board or on the main PCB itself. I can't find any TTL (3.3V) signals anywhere so I think those stay on their respective boards, maybe? It must bring 5V out the MDI cable up to the front control panel, or it must be generated on the IO boards and sent up front in those cable bundles, because I can't find any other way 5V is getting to the front control panel and there is a single header there.

    The switching supply seems to be fed 24V AC from the main 220/110/24 transformer in the cabinet and from there is feeds a large connector strip in the secondary cabinet. That is where everything is plugged in to the 24V DC from what I can find. I'll scan some pages from the manual.

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    Does anyone have a good way to host a .PDF? I suppose I could use a Dropbox link but don't want to post that publicly. It'd be nice if anyone finding this later could access it but... I've sent it to Vancbiker.

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    I’ve never been able to get a pdf to work on Practical Machinist.

    I would recommend converting the pdf to jpg and loading it that way.

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    Thing is, it is 63 pages long!

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    I downloaded it and had a quick look over. Just enough to understand their circuit continuation labeling scheme and get a gist of their organization. I'll spend a bit more time on it tonight.

    Have you scoped the output of GS1. Typically <50mV ripple will be OK. >50mV has been troublesome for me in the past with other controls. As I mentioned in our PM conversation, I do not have hands on experience with the 0i series controls. The shop I retired from always bought machines with the higher end Fanuc controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    The shop I retired from always bought machines with the higher end Fanuc controls.
    Yeah... I'm thinking if I ever buy anything FANUC again it is going to be of the 31i or 32i variety.

    I hate to say it but I may end up with a Robodrill after I repair this machine. I want a Brother but I can get a basically unused L series with a 4th axis for about a third the price of what a similarly-equipped Speedio would cost from the same machine dealer I got this machine from.

    And thanks again to everyone for the help and commentary on this. I have a few more days of futzing and then I'm going to send the controller all in to get tested and repaired (that is, the main PCB and everything attached to it).

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    Okay I scoped both the 24V and 24P referencing the 0V and 0L and both were very similar. I have something like 20-35mV RMS but if I measure Vpp I am getting a few hundred mV. Then, when I engage the servo amps and other peripherals by turning the E-stop off, I get a lot of spikes to nearly a volt of Vpp. I think. Again, this oscilloscope is great for some automotive stuff but it is by no means a super high quality unit.

    It looks like the frequency is on the order of MHz, but again hard to tell based on the scaling of the scope.

    Can I just throw a capacitor shunt to ground off this thing and see if that smooths it out and fixes the screen? Easy enough to do and I have plenty of capacitors that will handle the voltage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    .....

    Can I just throw a capacitor shunt to ground off this thing and see if that smooths it out and fixes the screen? Easy enough to do and I have plenty of capacitors that will handle the voltage.
    Certainly worth trying. Unplug the power to the CRT and CNC before you power it up with the cap installed. Measure the DC voltage with the cap in place and make sure that filtering the ripple does not raise the voltage much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Yeah... I'm thinking if I ever buy anything FANUC again it is going to be of the 31i or 32i variety.....
    The reason for the higher end controls was not due to reliability concerns, it was because we were buying higher performing, premium CNCs (predominantly Makinos) rather than commodity level machines.


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