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  1. #21
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    Not that I am aware of. My experience with service on the 0i series controls is pretty limited though. Others here may know more.

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    I ended up buying that Robodrill Mate. Next step is to order a rotary phase converter. Has anyone gotten away with running this machine with a 20hp RPC?

    I believe the spindle is advertised as a 15hp spindle so technically I need a 30hp RPC. However the manual says the spindle runs at 5 hp continuously or 7.5 hp for 15min. This makes me think that a 15-20 hp RPC would do just fine. Thoughts? What is others experience with this?

    Thanks

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    I'm running a robodrill on a 25 hp American Rotary RPC. My nameplate states 11 KVA input rating and I wanted to leave some head room for a 4th axis if that ever happens. I needed a stepdown transformer to get within the required input voltage range. I used a single phase autotransformer before the RPC. If you go for a 3 phase stepdown transformer, you may need a disconnect between the RPC and 3 phase transformer so the RPC can start unloaded. Also single phase transformers are cheaper. All industrial had good pricing on the phase converter.

    Good luck with getting the machine up and running
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike RzMachine View Post
    I'm running a robodrill on a 25 hp American Rotary RPC. My nameplate states 11 KVA input rating and I wanted to leave some head room for a 4th axis if that ever happens. I needed a stepdown transformer to get within the required input voltage range. I used a single phase autotransformer before the RPC. If you go for a 3 phase stepdown transformer, you may need a disconnect between the RPC and 3 phase transformer so the RPC can start unloaded. Also single phase transformers are cheaper. All industrial had good pricing on the phase converter.

    Good luck with getting the machine up and running
    Mike
    Thanks for info. Can you explain why you think the 25hp American rotary converter is more than you need for 11KVA nameplate? My robodrill mate has a 10KVA nameplate (1000volt-amps divided by 220 volts is 45 amps which requires a 30 hp RPC, per the sizing charts from America rotary). Is my logic correct with the sizing process from KVA to rotary phase converter size?

    In regards to the voltage step down. What was your incoming voltage that required the step down? The manual states that +10%/-15% voltage is ok, which seems like a pretty big acceptable range. Did you see alarms at a certain voltage? Just curious if I should prep this ahead of game time.

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    I tried replying and lost it somehow, here it is again.

    If you apply a .8 power factor correction to your conversion you will get down to a 25hp converter. Before purchasing, I would contact American Rotary tech support, they were very helpful and are familiar with what you are doing. All industrial offered very good pricing including shipping.

    My incoming voltage sits around 247 vac, above the 220 x 110% machine limit of 242vac. Additionally, if line voltage is close to the machine voltage limits, take into account the regen backfeed power on deceleration. My machine doesn't use shunt resistors, not sure about the Mate. I never powered up at full line voltage as it was clear I needed to step down. I also run transient voltage suppressors on the input power to catch high voltage spikes.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike RzMachine View Post
    I tried replying and lost it somehow, here it is again.

    If you apply a .8 power factor correction to your conversion you will get down to a 25hp converter. Before purchasing, I would contact American Rotary tech support, they were very helpful and are familiar with what you are doing. All industrial offered very good pricing including shipping.

    My incoming voltage sits around 247 vac, above the 220 x 110% machine limit of 242vac. Additionally, if line voltage is close to the machine voltage limits, take into account the regen backfeed power on deceleration. My machine doesn't use shunt resistors, not sure about the Mate. I never powered up at full line voltage as it was clear I needed to step down. I also run transient voltage suppressors on the input power to catch high voltage spikes.

    Mike
    Again thanks for the great info Mike. Do you mind posting the make and model, or a link, to the transformer you got to reduce the incoming single phase voltage?

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    This is the autotransformer I used for my install. I paid around $250 from a local electrical supply house. I've seen lower prices online but shipping is expensive on these:
    K1XGF16-2 FEDERAL 1PH BUCK BOOST
    120X240V PRI CU115C RISE 2 KVA
    16/32V SEC
    Using this wiring diagram:
    https://www.temcoindustrial.com/medi...t_wiring_4.pdf
    When wired this way, it will buck 249 to 220 at 15.6KVA and 70.8A

    I was pretty confused how autotransformers are rated but I consulted with an electrical engineer friend who reviewed and agreed that it would perform as specified. I was advised that transformers are typically sized for steady state loads and can tolerate transients (as long as it doesn't saturate). The RPC is sized above steady state because the energy storage elements in it need to be large enough for transients.

    Mike

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    Quick update - I did call American Rotary today since they are having a 25% off sale. Like everyone has said their customer support is amazing. They have their own buck transformers and they threw in an outdoor rated enclosure for the idler. I went with an AD20 and a 3 KVA transformer. Now its up to me to keep the black smoke inside everything.

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    Alright, machine is installed along with the RPC and transformer. I will be connecting the wires this weekend. Which contact within the machine should the manufactured line be connected to? I know it should be the one not going to the controls but which one is that?

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    it is typically T the furthest right. R S T
    But I would use your meter and beep it out to the fuses for the single phase power supply.

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    Electrical diagram shows the power supplies running off of R and S.

    Did Fanuc ever get back to you about the 4th?

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    I have connections labeled as U1, V1 and W1. Iím guessing the W1 is for the manufactured line meaning it doesnít go to the controls. How do I check this with an ohm meter?

    The Fanuc rep quoted me ~$10k for a 4th indexer and never got back to me on a true 4th.

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    Can someone verify the controls are run off U1 and V1, and not from W1? This is a picture of my wiring inputs (L1, L2, L3) and the machine outputs (U1, V1 and W1). I also included a picture of a block diagram in case that is telling. Thanks
    robodrill-mate-power-input-diagram.jpg
    robodrill-mate-power-block-diagram.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleetis View Post
    Can someone verify the controls are run off U1 and V1, and not from W1? This is a picture of my wiring inputs (L1, L2, L3) and the machine outputs (U1, V1 and W1). I also included a picture of a block diagram in case that is telling. Thanks
    The power supply for the control and IO stuff is directly to the right of the Main Breaker. Its guts are on the backside of the thing there.
    There should be two fuses or small breakers there on the front side.
    You should beep (audible continuity check)those back to the machine side of the main breaker.
    Dont put the Manufactured leg on either of those.

    It will probably be T or W or L3. But better to be sure.

    If you look at the machine side of the main breaker. Of the three poles, one terminal should have fewer wires landed on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GENERALDISARRAY View Post
    The power supply for the control and IO stuff is directly to the right of the Main Breaker. Its guts are on the backside of the thing there.
    There should be two fuses or small breakers there on the front side.
    You should beep (audible continuity check)those back to the machine side of the main breaker.
    Dont put the Manufactured leg on either of those.

    It will probably be T or W or L3. But better to be sure.

    If you look at the machine side of the main breaker. Of the three poles, one terminal should have fewer wires landed on it.
    Great, thank you for the info! I will take a look.

    A new problem just came up. Iím getting a high amp draw with the robodrill powered on but sitting idle. The draw is 45amps as measured with a clamp ohm meter on any of the 3 supply wires. Someone has suggested to me that this could be because the machine is configured to run on 200v but my power supply is 220v (after already be bucked with transformer from 240v). Is it true that the robodrill mate needs to be set to accept either 200 or 220v input? and if so how do I change it from 200v to 220v?

    Another interesting point is that I know the machine was previously set up on a 200v supply. That makes me think this theory may be correct.

  18. #36
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    Following up on my last post - I had a call with Methods and they said the machine doesn't need to be set to receive 200 or 220v. It simply accepts anything within that range. This means something else is wrong with my setup, or maybe the rotary phase converter I am using is outputting too high of voltage. They suggested that rotary phase converters normally don't work well with Robodrills since they will "dump" the excess voltage that is present from the idler before the Robodrill is turned on. Rather, they recommend a phase perfect converter.

    With my American Rotary AD20 I read the following voltages under load,
    L1-L2: 239v
    L2-L3: 210v
    L3-L1: 224v

    In the above config L2 is the wild leg. This is what Methods recommended for placing the wild leg.

    What are others getting from AR converters for the voltages under load? The above readings are not well balanced. AR has confirmed that my wiring is correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GENERALDISARRAY View Post
    You can not put a fourth on it. The control is capable. But Methods has said since 2006 that you can not. Maybe something in the ladder?
    You can always use a 4th axis control box and DPRNT thru RS232(if equipped). Down fall is the 4th axis is only positional.

  20. #38
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    Have you made any headway on this?

    Are these values after your buck transformer? they seem high if they are the voltages fed into the machine.

    >With my American Rotary AD20 I read the following voltages under load,
    >L1-L2: 239v
    >L2-L3: 210v
    >L3-L1: 224v

    I checked this morning and I have the two native ac lines connected to L1 and L2 and the synthesized leg connected to L3. My voltages as measured at the input to the mill are:

    L1-L2: 216v
    L2-L3: 211v
    L3-L1: 212v

    On initial installation I found a state that would put the mill/rpc into some loud resonance. I could repeat the condition by running the RPC, starting the machine normally, then e-stopping the mill. Upon releasing the estop when the machine contactor closed, I would get a loud resonance in the phase converter and the idler would warm up to 140f quickly. The T1-T3 voltage would be pulled down from 231 to 211 during this state. I think there was some interaction between the fanuc regen/recitification circuit and the RPC.

    I got the RPC into a useable configuration by disconnecting some of the capacitors that brought the 3rd leg voltage down lower than the L1-L2 voltage as you can see from my measurements above. This was the only capacitor config that stopped the resonance. I'm guessing if I had more caps, I could connect in parallel/series to get some intermediate that may work better, but I'm running and all voltages are within the permissible range.

    Let me know if I can help you get running in any way.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike RzMachine View Post
    Have you made any headway on this?

    Are these values after your buck transformer? they seem high if they are the voltages fed into the machine.

    >With my American Rotary AD20 I read the following voltages under load,
    >L1-L2: 239v
    >L2-L3: 210v
    >L3-L1: 224v

    I checked this morning and I have the two native ac lines connected to L1 and L2 and the synthesized leg connected to L3. My voltages as measured at the input to the mill are:

    L1-L2: 216v
    L2-L3: 211v
    L3-L1: 212v

    On initial installation I found a state that would put the mill/rpc into some loud resonance. I could repeat the condition by running the RPC, starting the machine normally, then e-stopping the mill. Upon releasing the estop when the machine contactor closed, I would get a loud resonance in the phase converter and the idler would warm up to 140f quickly. The T1-T3 voltage would be pulled down from 231 to 211 during this state. I think there was some interaction between the fanuc regen/recitification circuit and the RPC.

    I got the RPC into a useable configuration by disconnecting some of the capacitors that brought the 3rd leg voltage down lower than the L1-L2 voltage as you can see from my measurements above. This was the only capacitor config that stopped the resonance. I'm guessing if I had more caps, I could connect in parallel/series to get some intermediate that may work better, but I'm running and all voltages are within the permissible range.

    Let me know if I can help you get running in any way.

    Mike
    Hi Mike,

    Thanks a ton for taking the time to check your voltages.

    This sounds very similar to my situation. Did you by chance measure a high draw when that resonance was created? Since my last post I got a new transformer to lower the voltage more. I went from a single phase to a three phase transformer that also bucks more voltage. My new voltages are now here and measured at the robodrill input, first number is with the robodrill off and second number is once the machine is on and powered up but still at idle. There is a very high am draw on the supply wires once the robodrill is powered up.

    Leg-Leg: cnc off, cnc on
    L1-L2: 213, 213
    L2-L3: 225, 225
    L3-L1: 225, 202

    As you can see my L3-L1 also drops a ton once the robodrill is on. Iím very curious to see what capacitor layout you ended up with. If you can post some details of that Iíd appreciate it a ton!

    If you have any more understanding of how the robodrill regen works and how it may interact poorly with the high voltage generated leg Iíd be curious to learn about that. Itís all black magic to me at this point.

    Funny thing is America Rotary has had me try all sorts of capacitor configurations that increase the voltage on L3-L1 so that it would drop less. Sounds like this is the opposite of what you did. I should also say they have been very responsive and spent a ton of time emailing and calling me. They are very dedicated to customer service. Just no solution quite yet.

    Thanks again!!

  22. #40
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    I should also add that my wiring is just like yours now, Mike, where the wild leg is on L3. Putting it on L2 like Methods Machine suggested made the power drive unit click really fast and fairly loudly.


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