Fanuc Robodrill for upstart manufacturing shop?

I'm fixin to start my own manufacturing business come fall, and between now and then I'll be buying a few machine tools. I've been watching machines come and go on ebay for about a year, so I have at least a vague idea how much I might expect to spend. I'll be working in aluminum and plastic, and the parts are small, so I figure I don't really need a powerful machine. A toolchanger, and a reasonably fast spindle (a big cutter for my parts will be 1/4") and maybe 20" in X will do the trick.

There are 5 Fanuc Robodrills listed on ebay right now. They'll probably go over my budget, but I'd like to get some opinions just in case:

Fanuc on Ebay

Any members care to estimate the value of this type/age of machine?

TIA

Question Boy

The FR has a good reputation. A few years ago some in MD of similar vintage and with pallet changer were selling for about $25,000 at live auction.

Others in that vein to consider are Miyano TSV (Jap), Chiron FZ8 and FZ12 (German) and Enshu S300 (Jap)...with the Miyano being the lightest duty (i.e. only very light milling) and the Enshu being the heaviest duty of the lot. I'd place the FR in between Miyano and Chiron for milling capabilities. The Chiron beats them all in tool change times at 1 second or less.

Ebay, being the cheapskate heaven it is (for CNC stuff anyway), you might luck out and get one of those FR's dirt cheap...esp with five of them up for bid at once. Just make sure they aren't worn out...sounds like a high production shop they are in...see if you can find out hours on them.

Thanks D., it's always good to know the 'comps' when trying to buy machinery. I've emailed the seller asking for the cycle time/on time numbers for the machines. Haven't heard back yet.

I discovered this morning that all the auctions end at exactly the same time, which makes it difficult to assign a top bid price to each machine. If there were even a couple of minutes between each auction, I could either bid on the next machine if I lose the first (an so on) or I could bid on all of them, then cancel after the first one.

I need a strategy here.

Question Boy

Have used two different Robodrill machines and both have been very fast and accurate for light machining. We have been beating the one we have in this shop for a while now and it keeps coming back for more. Sounds like a good machine for your needs.

I discovered this morning that all the auctions end at exactly the same time, which makes it difficult to assign a top bid price to each machine.

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Seller was an idiot for doing it that way. I notice at least one machine is 1997 while others are 1995, to add to the complexity and confusion. I'll bet at least one bidder will end up being high bidder on two or more of the machines, when he really only wanted (and has the money for) one !

Another cringer with that auction(s) is that the doofus expects full payment within 5 days and yet he won't release the machines until the end of the month ! Sounds like he needs to gather up all the funds to make payments on his new iron....a worrisome prospect for the buyers of his old iron. No way would I pay mucho thousand of dollars for something and then have to wait 3 weeks before "maybe" it would be ready to ship...not to mention what mechanical or electrical tribulations might occur during that 3 week period that the machine is still working it's butt off and the operator isn't being quite as careful as they were just knowing they no longer own the machine !!

Who's Dave ?

Who's Dave ?

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Huh? What?

Sorry, I get all scatterbrained when I'm excited about a machine.

Question Boy

Have used two different Robodrill machines and both have been very fast and accurate for light machining. We have been beating the one we have in this shop for a while now and it keeps coming back for more. Sounds like a good machine for your needs.

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dclarkmachine,

From the looks of it, the Robodrill is basically a drill/tap machine that is capable of light milling duty. What do you consider a 'big' cutter for one of these machines?

I would consider a 1" dia. EM in alum big for a Robodrill. We run some 1/2 em's in steel from time to time and it is not a problem. I would say it mills like a Bridgeport, drills like a machining center.

Drills like a FAST machining center!!!
I was a programmer in a shop that had four of them in the late 90's. Pallet shufflers are nice. But it'll work an operator near to death!
Jim

I have literature on the Fanuc T10A (the ones on eBay are a little newer, T10B and C) and the Enshu S300, handy for a few spec comparisons-

1. Enshu weighs almost twice as much..4,000 lb vs 7,700 lbs

2. Enshu 10,000 RPM spindle, Fanuc 8,000 RPM

3. Enshu rapids 1,417 ipm all axis, Fanuc 944 ipm on X and Y, 787 ipm on Z

4. Enshu tool to tool, 1 second with high speed ATC option (no figure given on standard ATC, but suspect it's much slower than 1.5 sec), Fanuc 1.5 second tool to tool change.

5. Enshu 12 tools (16 optional), Fanuc 10 tools

6. Max rated drill/tap/mill sizes in aluminum- Enshu 32mm/24mm/20mm (end),63mm (face). Fanuc 30mm/24m/ ? (no mention of milling with Fanuc in literature)

7. Enshu pallet change time 1.5 seconds, no time mentioned for Fanuc pallet changer...but I suspect the Enshu is much faster since it rotates.

Regarding machine size comparisons, even though the Enshu is much heavier, the actual shop space comparsion between the two is similar. The Enshu is about 20 inches deeper (including pallet changer) but the Fanuc is 8 inches wider not including the pallet changer...so the Fanuc would be much wider with the pallet changer poking out the right side.

Bottom line is the Enshu smokes the Fanuc Robodrill* in all categories if equipped with the high speed ATC. But I suspect in reality most Enshu S300's in the used marketplace are equipped with the standard ATC, in which case the standard Fanuc Robodrill turret type ATC would be faster... so one must consider just how important tool to tool change times are for the parts they may be machining.


*This is of course assuming the Fanuc T10B and C models have the same specs as the T10A. Could be some improvements in the B and C, such as faster rapids, making them more comparable to the Enshu S300. But even if so, the Enshu will still way surpass the Fanuc in high speed milling capabilities.

I have operated and set up jobs on the Robodrill at my current job. They're very fast and pretty darn accurate so be careful and put the rapid on 25% to slow it down a bit. You want parts running fast, this machine is for you.

Well QB, did you get one of them or not ?

No sir, I did not. I was confident that I'd own one right up to the last 30 seconds. One minute I'm a champ, the next I'm a chump. I was not prepared for the spike at the end, and, in hindsight I certainly would have come up with another thousand or so to try to get one. I'm bummed, but I know something else will come along. In fact, there's already another listed. Only been up for a day, and the biding has surpassed what the previous 5 machines had reached by the 7th day, so it's probably going to go a bit too high for me.

Last week I drove the 1K mi. round trip to see the machines in action at the sellers plant. I was impressed by the speed of the machine, and I was dreaming of running my own parts with the pallet shuffle as I watched. They had a bunch of kids running around, loading and unloading, all the cycle start buttons were broken to bits as the operators would poke it with whatever tool that they just used to tighten the fixture, before running over to load/unload the next machine. Maybe it's better that I didn't get one as they were definitely run many, many hours.

I've been doing some reading on 30 taper machines, and the more I read, the more certain I become that they're right for my needs. Reasonably fast spindles, fast tool changes, fast rapids, smallish footprint, less expensive, electrically efficeint, yada, yada.

The search continues.

If you decide you want an Enshu S300, I just happen to have two of them for sale

Take a look at the Brother product line of Drill/Tap centers. I integrated many of them and found them to be quite excellent at the work you are looking to perform.

I forgot about Brother. Aren't they in reality exactly the same as either the Fanuc or the Miyano models ? I'm thinking maybe Miyano actually makes them for Brother but I could be wrong.

No. Brother makes their own machines, I have been in the factory (Nagoya).

The control is their own and very fast. They hold the patent for rigid tapping (about to expire?)

Brother also makes an EDM that is OEM'd

The Brother Drill/Tap centers are on my radar. I like the extended travels some of the machines have. Just need to find one "priced for quick sale"!

How are you doing 5 years later?

I'm also considering the robodrill for machining medical instruments and impalnt prototypes. Our implants typically are large if they are 2" long, with plenty of organic shapes to mill. If I consider a robodrill for our use it would have a 4th and 5th axis rotary table. For lots of applications, this would be the "workhorse" of our shop.

Did you end up getting a Robodrill, and how is it treating you? Or did you get something else, and how is that treating you? We are a startup, so trying to stretch our dollar as you were. It'd be great to hear your experiences.

I did end up with a Robodrill, bought a 1995 model back in '06. The thrust bearings on the ballscrews were noisy when I bought it but I ignored that and the machine happily but noisily made parts to tolerance for the first two years I ran it. The writing was on the wall at the end of '08 so I shut the shop and stored the machine for the next 2.5 years. Now the machine is in my garage , I replaced the axis bearings, refurbed the way covers, etc., and I'll be running parts soon.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another, though if I were in the position to buy, I'd get one with a 15k spindle, or more as all my parts are small too. I think a Robodrill would be ideal for medical device parts, but possibly overkill from a duty-cycle standpoint. Robodrills are designed for 24-7 operation, and absolute minimal downtime. If you're not planning to run 24-7 then the machine technology may be obsolete before the machine is worn out.

I'd think a Haas with a high RPM spindle would also be ideal for small parts, but last time I checked the used machine prices were ridiculous, and that's why I ended up with the Fanuc. Older Robodrills are relatively cheap for what they are- small footprint, high speed, ultra high reliability light duty milling/drilling/tapping. On the other hand, the Haas control is among the most user friendly, the Fanuc is not.

The Fanuc service network is well established if you should need repairs. I've heard the Haas service network is hard to beat too.

QB