Feedback on pallet idea

Hi guys,

I am mulling over ideas for a 'universal' quick change pallet system for vises. The idea being very easy pallet changing, as well as the ability to go back to using the vise as a normal vise easily.

In the examples below, the pallets are not a *perfect* fit for any vise but would be interchangeable between vise brands using our quick change jaws (assuming its OK for us to sell dovetailed versions). So for shops who may have old Kurts and new Oranges the pallets are compatible with both.

Repeatable X location is done through a dowel slot, Y against the fixed vise jaw. For Z, the bottom of the pallet would be ground and pulled downward via the dovetail against the master vise jaws which also provided more support.

My questions/notes are:
1) How is the general idea received here - are we on to something good?
2) Would people prefer the quick change jaw variants with Z support from the master jaws, or would you prefer to receive and use full master jaws for the system? Longer to swap in/out of master jaws than simply carvesmart style jaws, but less Z height waste.
3) Wondering if anyone would have interest in a lang/5th axis/etc mini pallet system of the same type.





We have the dovetail and other tooling required, and stock for a few jaws and pallets on the way. I hope to make a few concepts this week.

All input welcome - the good, the bad, the ugly

I believe orange vises already makes something similar. Now jaws that fit kurt vises would be nice.




Yep
https://www.orangevise.com/6-twin-delta-vise-pallet-system/

That is correct, and appears to be quite a good solution. It is specific to Orange though, and does require the full master vise jaw change. In this case, it would be incompatible with other vise brands as well as be much more time consuming than if the proposed system were implemented using standard quick change jaws.

Price and accuracy would be very important. I have the new Orange pallets and jaws. There is already the potential for repeatability issues, and adding ANOTHER moving component (your carvesmart-style jaws) is going to just screw with making fixtures useful even more. The jaws from Orange that have a large amount of clamping and support and basically no deflection are $150. It's going to be really hard to beat that. Even if your jaws were $80, man I'd want the better accuracy and support of the Orange stuff.

The carvesmart jaws may potentially stack tolerance, but if you mount them and probe the first pallet (similar usage routine to other pallet systems.. you dont move around the base plate between pallet loads) - subsequent pallet loads should repeat very well I would expect since nothing would move but the pallet during install. So repeatability should be quite good.

I wonder what concerns you have about the Orange system though. Both out of curiosity, and I am sure Eric would not mind constructive feedback as well if actionable.

Regarding price, the $150 for the Orange jaws is certainly a bargain. The carvesmart master jaws alone are $299 for reference (at least for the 4140 versions..). At any rate, within these price ranges, I feel there is a lot of value in these pallet systems. Especially considering efficiency, and performance compared to the dedicated pallet offerings such as Pierson, which while fantastic, are single purpose and multiples more expensive. I do not doubt steel ball locks locate better and are more rugged than the dovetail matings - but they completely lack the versatility of a vise based system which can go from pallet to vise in seconds. If extreme accuracy is the concern, then of course a purpose built solution will always be best.

Made some quick jaws and a pallet after the stock arrived. Waiting on dowel pins now, but test fits and checking for fit on vise looks great so far.

i would also be curious as to how the pallet itself behaves as far as bowing or twisting.

I run a LOT of vise fixtures and have found you need to use a torque wrench to keep the bowing down ,, try and grip them as light as you can and make the top right in the vise setup and they repeat good. Also make the fixtures from thick plate if they have any size to them .. I tried making a fixture out of 1" alum and with 8 mitee bites it would bow close to .03 in the middle ,, re made it from 1 1/2" and the bow was down to .002 and would repeat . Its crazy how much force a row of mitee bites can put on a fixture when you add them all up.

Thanks for the info DD. .002 seems like quite a bit - I wonder how/where you held the pallet?

The one in my picture is 1 1/4" thick, as you can see it is 'held' in fairly even parts. When I have time Ill load up the indicator and see what if any bowing I can measure. 40 ft lbs on the orange should be over 3,000 lbs of holding force which seems plenty.