Stang Bladeworks
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2019
Hi,
I am looking to purchase a new cnc machine (mill) and I am looking for some advice. I am a hobbyist knifemaker from Canada. I currently manually machine my knives and hand grinding / finish everything. This has been a great way to learn but it is very slow. I have been fortunate enough to have a small demand build up for my work and I am looking at a CNC to help my throughput. I would like to be able to keep my prices lower while still making some extra money to grow my shop capabilities and provide a supplemental income. I am not looking to take on any extra cnc work (job shop)
My background in cnc or machining at all is ZERO. I could not be more of a beginner. I am willing to do what it takes to learn and I fully understand that you don't just push a button and get perfect parts. I am trying to learn the programming through online courses in my spare time. I still plan to do a lot by hand but if I can get the knife mechanically working with the cnc I will be happy. Anything above that is a bonus.
The materials I need to cut are titanium, stainless steel (hard and soft) and phenolics (g10, cf, micarta. I don't need to take massive cuts but I do need decent accuracy especially when it comes to locating holes. I would need to be within a half thou on my hole locations.
I started out looking at tormachs. I was set on an 1100mx. My plan was to generate some funds and add a tool changer at a later date. After a fair but of research almost everyone seemed to recommend jumping up to a haas machine considering the cost of the tormach.
I began looking into new haas machines since the used market in my area (Alberta Canada)is limited. I am also not overly comfortable purchasing used since my knowledge of these machines is limited. I am willing to save a little longer to buy new.
There are two haas machines that are within my budget, a mini mill and a tool room mill. After some more research I decided the mini mill seemed like a better fit for my shop. My space is limited and the mini mill is about the max I can fit. I found a local HFO near my work (Thomas skinner) and I met with a salesman there to look at a mini mill. I was very impressed by the machine and the person I met with was vert helpful.
My plan is to pay for half the machine cash and finance the other half. I fully understand that the machine likely wont make me any money at first because I am new to this. I will work hard to try to get past the initial learning curve but I anticipate that this may take a few months or even longer. As I learn more I plan to have my programs do more but at first if it can do some holes and counterbores I'm happy.
I do not want my monthly payments to be a financial burden. I need to be able to pay them even if the machine generates no income at all for a while. If need be I will pay for more of the machine up front to accomplish this.
I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with haas' financing.
Here is where my real questions start.
What options are worthwhile for someone like me. I know that certain options can only be ordered with the machine so I want to be as informed as possible before deciding on them. Based on my limited knowledge I think the mase model should be ok. It was recommended that I at least get a through spindle coolant ready option (about $1000) to allow for TSC in the future.
The 6k rpm spindle seems ok but the 10k may be worth the extra. I don't hink this can be easily changed later. The 10k would be the absolute limit of my electrical. the higher rpm would be nice since I use mostly small carbide tools. I have zero experience with this so its hard for me to do a cost benefit analysis. If I can get the same job done just slower I would be OK with that. I will always be the bottleneck in my operation because there is a lot of hand work that goes into each knife. If my cycle times are an extra 30 minutes or so I don't care.
I don't think I need any fourth or fifth axis at this time and it sounds like it can be retrofitted later.
As far as coolant goes I imagine that the standard flood coolant setup is fine for me.
The probe system looks awesome and I will get it eventually but the price is steep. I'm not sure if its worth it up front. I would need to make a few extra knives to pay for it and right now that's a slow process. Ideally I would like to get the machine for as little as possible and use it to pay for upgrades down the road. that said I'm all ears regarding your opinions on the different options. What's worth it and what's not? What can and can't be upgraded later? Is this the right machine? Was the tormach a better option, or is there another brand I should look at?
As I see it here is a list of pros and cons for both.
Tormach 1100mx:
pros-
less expensive
easy to upgrade later
self service
cheaper parts
more features included in the base price (rigid tapping, macros, 10000rpm)
cons-
no accuracy guarantee
dovetail ways (people seem to feel these are lesser)
much lighter weight
I have heard customer service can be less than ideal
fully loaded its pretty close in price to the haas
Haas mini mill:
pros-
local HFO for support
more accurate (accuracy guarantee)
liner rails
much heavier
more rigid
seems to be higher quality in general
cons:
more expensive
options add up quick
6000rpm
less able to self service the machine
less standard features
Any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated. As I stated I have no prior knowledge of this, so if I am way off on something let me know. I am just looking to grow my hobby into an actual business and this seems like the next step.
I am looking to purchase a new cnc machine (mill) and I am looking for some advice. I am a hobbyist knifemaker from Canada. I currently manually machine my knives and hand grinding / finish everything. This has been a great way to learn but it is very slow. I have been fortunate enough to have a small demand build up for my work and I am looking at a CNC to help my throughput. I would like to be able to keep my prices lower while still making some extra money to grow my shop capabilities and provide a supplemental income. I am not looking to take on any extra cnc work (job shop)
My background in cnc or machining at all is ZERO. I could not be more of a beginner. I am willing to do what it takes to learn and I fully understand that you don't just push a button and get perfect parts. I am trying to learn the programming through online courses in my spare time. I still plan to do a lot by hand but if I can get the knife mechanically working with the cnc I will be happy. Anything above that is a bonus.
The materials I need to cut are titanium, stainless steel (hard and soft) and phenolics (g10, cf, micarta. I don't need to take massive cuts but I do need decent accuracy especially when it comes to locating holes. I would need to be within a half thou on my hole locations.
I started out looking at tormachs. I was set on an 1100mx. My plan was to generate some funds and add a tool changer at a later date. After a fair but of research almost everyone seemed to recommend jumping up to a haas machine considering the cost of the tormach.
I began looking into new haas machines since the used market in my area (Alberta Canada)is limited. I am also not overly comfortable purchasing used since my knowledge of these machines is limited. I am willing to save a little longer to buy new.
There are two haas machines that are within my budget, a mini mill and a tool room mill. After some more research I decided the mini mill seemed like a better fit for my shop. My space is limited and the mini mill is about the max I can fit. I found a local HFO near my work (Thomas skinner) and I met with a salesman there to look at a mini mill. I was very impressed by the machine and the person I met with was vert helpful.
My plan is to pay for half the machine cash and finance the other half. I fully understand that the machine likely wont make me any money at first because I am new to this. I will work hard to try to get past the initial learning curve but I anticipate that this may take a few months or even longer. As I learn more I plan to have my programs do more but at first if it can do some holes and counterbores I'm happy.
I do not want my monthly payments to be a financial burden. I need to be able to pay them even if the machine generates no income at all for a while. If need be I will pay for more of the machine up front to accomplish this.
I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with haas' financing.
Here is where my real questions start.
What options are worthwhile for someone like me. I know that certain options can only be ordered with the machine so I want to be as informed as possible before deciding on them. Based on my limited knowledge I think the mase model should be ok. It was recommended that I at least get a through spindle coolant ready option (about $1000) to allow for TSC in the future.
The 6k rpm spindle seems ok but the 10k may be worth the extra. I don't hink this can be easily changed later. The 10k would be the absolute limit of my electrical. the higher rpm would be nice since I use mostly small carbide tools. I have zero experience with this so its hard for me to do a cost benefit analysis. If I can get the same job done just slower I would be OK with that. I will always be the bottleneck in my operation because there is a lot of hand work that goes into each knife. If my cycle times are an extra 30 minutes or so I don't care.
I don't think I need any fourth or fifth axis at this time and it sounds like it can be retrofitted later.
As far as coolant goes I imagine that the standard flood coolant setup is fine for me.
The probe system looks awesome and I will get it eventually but the price is steep. I'm not sure if its worth it up front. I would need to make a few extra knives to pay for it and right now that's a slow process. Ideally I would like to get the machine for as little as possible and use it to pay for upgrades down the road. that said I'm all ears regarding your opinions on the different options. What's worth it and what's not? What can and can't be upgraded later? Is this the right machine? Was the tormach a better option, or is there another brand I should look at?
As I see it here is a list of pros and cons for both.
Tormach 1100mx:
pros-
less expensive
easy to upgrade later
self service
cheaper parts
more features included in the base price (rigid tapping, macros, 10000rpm)
cons-
no accuracy guarantee
dovetail ways (people seem to feel these are lesser)
much lighter weight
I have heard customer service can be less than ideal
fully loaded its pretty close in price to the haas
Haas mini mill:
pros-
local HFO for support
more accurate (accuracy guarantee)
liner rails
much heavier
more rigid
seems to be higher quality in general
cons:
more expensive
options add up quick
6000rpm
less able to self service the machine
less standard features
Any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated. As I stated I have no prior knowledge of this, so if I am way off on something let me know. I am just looking to grow my hobby into an actual business and this seems like the next step.