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First crash on machine, would you use this insert still?

H

helocat

Aluminum
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Newberg, Oregon
Failed to close op 2 vise and the 2.5" shell mill pulled a 3" round of 6061 out and into the door window, right at my face. :cryin:

Door glass done, new one on the way with shipping about $500 for the kit.

And 3 of the inserts broken. Anyone rotate and use inserts still after something like this or just trash them since they are not fully supported in the pockets anymore? The holder survived.




IMG-2611-2.jpg
 
I'd go for a new insert in that case..

Also.. You *NEED* to set a procedure for yourself.

Put both parts in the machine, one in one hand one in the other..
Put the part in your left hand into the vise, where its supposed to
go, and then place the second part on the front of the vise....

Deal with vice #1, on your left. Do your double checks.. A guy I worked
with called it "Take 2".. Take 2 seconds to roll through the checklist,
jaws blown out, vise tight, double check orientation of part...

THEN go on to vise #2.... Pick up the part off the front of the vise, and
rinse and repeat..

Why do I say this? Because every couple of years I bite myself in the ass
the same way.. I've never broken a window, but I have lost lots of inserts,
and endmills, and maybe a few drills..

This may be fresh in my head, because I may have gotten lax and had a woops
not too long ago..
 
Do not let yourself be interrupted when you are doing something critical. Like loading parts. Many of the stoopid mistakes I have made occurred when I let myself be interrupted. As said in the above post, get into a good routine and do not vary from it. Learn and keep moving on.
 
Gobo said:
Do not let yourself be interrupted when you are doing something critical. Like loading parts. Many of the stoopid mistakes I have made occurred when I let myself be interrupted. As said in the above post, get into a good routine and do not vary from it. Learn and keep moving on.
Click to expand...

Yup this is exactly what happened. I was interrupted loading, and the flipped part never got the vice closed. Pocket held it for almost a full pass!

Bobw said:
I'd go for a new insert in that case..

Also.. You *NEED* to set a procedure for yourself.

Put both parts in the machine, one in one hand one in the other..
Put the part in your left hand into the vise, where its supposed to
go, and then place the second part on the front of the vise....

Deal with vice #1, on your left. Do your double checks.. A guy I worked
with called it "Take 2".. Take 2 seconds to roll through the checklist,
jaws blown out, vise tight, double check orientation of part...

THEN go on to vise #2.... Pick up the part off the front of the vise, and
rinse and repeat..

Why do I say this? Because every couple of years I bite myself in the ass
the same way.. I've never broken a window, but I have lost lots of inserts,
and endmills, and maybe a few drills..

This may be fresh in my head, because I may have gotten lax and had a woops
not too long ago..
Click to expand...

I never forgot to tighten a vice before but have had staff do it yrs back when I had a little Haas TM1 open Tool Room mill. He did it 2x before I pulled him from running the mill.

When I say first Crash, this is my first crash of my new mill. It's been 7yrs since I had any CNC equipment in the shop and just took delivery of this VF2SS a few months back. But really it's beating the cobwebs out of my head as 7yrs ago I only had that mill for 2.5yrs. Before that it was almost 15yrs since I looked G&M code.

Outcome:

Replaced all 6 inserts with new. One was just shattered, like little shards as it fell apart. Amazingly the pocket was undamaged.

Forgot the rule of post crash check your offsets. Next part in that vice, was off. Vice was knocked out of parrellety. Sheesh. All costs are on me, but I should have remembered that just as a precaution. $4 of alum cost but still scrapped part vrs. maybe 60 seconds to hit the vice with the prob.

Thank you everyone for the great info.
 
I do a shake test. I'll just grab the part and try to rattle it, doesn't mean torque is correct but usually the problem is when something just gets completely missed. I'll run my finger down a row of Mitee Bite clamps, and if one was missed it will rattle around in the pocket.
 
$475 + shipping and 2.5hrs of my time to swap out, new door glass is installed. The factory installed door did not have the rubber bumpers that float the glass off the back plates, but the replacement kit came with them. Installed them, well at least the right door now has them.

Back at running parts with a properly checked vices!

door.jpg
 
Nice to see others using trigon milling inserts as well. They are pretty bomb proof, but to an extent. Time to swap inserts.
 
Here's a quick tip I use for multi vice setups, use multiple handles, take them off once tight. If you see a handle still in the machine that vise is considered not tight.
 
Part run continues with no issues. Just had to work on the process of loading and most impotently not have any distractions!

1. Grab slug left hand
2. Grab air tool right hand and blow off slug
3. Open mill, blow off right and left vise
4. Set slug on left vice and put air tool down and grab vice Handel
5. Loosen Right vice, pull part out and set on vice
6. Loosen left vice and flip part to right vice
7. Move Slug to soft jaw pocket, tighten vice
8. Move vice Handel to right vise, left hand set part in soft jaw and tighten left vice
9. Put vice handle away, grab air tool
10. Blow off finished opt 2. Pick up Part from top of right vice
11. Close doors, hit go
 
Multistep processes like above create error traps. Especially if there is a distraction of some sort in a critical phase like tightening the jaw. That is why we design fail safes...idiot proof...ahem pokeoke into processes.

As mentioned above, using multiple handles in a hard visual clue that the vise is not tight...it may be, but you were still cued to check.

I've dealt with 5s types of stuff for years. Sometimes it's just pointless crap that the operator should know better. But there are times that it only happened once, but the effects/possible effects (injury) were so great that process implementation was put into the standard procedure.

Your incident is a perfect example. Luckily you were not hurt, but the potential was there to cause great bodily harm.
 
I’ve put ejector springs under the part before. Not strong ones but enough to lift the part out. Then your facing mill knocks the part off the top of the fixture vs a crash. Also makes it easy to see if one slug out of many was tightened as it’s obvious it isn’t sitting in the fixture right.
 
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