First VMC...tooling
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  1. #1
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    Default First VMC...tooling

    In 3 weeks I'm hoping to take delivery of my first "real" vmc. Most of my endmills are Helical. I plan to pick up some YG1 as I've read good things about them. I do have to destiny as well.


    Most of my tool holders are coming from Maritool. Any gauge length works for what I need it to do, so most have been around the 2.35-2.75". 95% of the material I cut is alum. ER32 is mostly what I got with a few ER16 and set screw holders. I'll have to grind a flat on my tooling for set screw. I didn't have to do this on my own machine because, didn't have a lot of power


    I've been curious and looking at hydraulic for the purpose of roughing out material as fast as I can. YG1 is pretty attractive for a 3/8 holder at $259. I wish I could afford Shunk or BK. My tool rep mention ETP but haven't found much information on them.


    Does anyone have experience with the YG1 hydraulic tool holders?

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    I run 3/8" in ER32 and have never had one try and pull out yet ,,, 1/2" and above it setscrew only in my book ... I snap a couple 3/8" alu-powers a month and half the time it screws up the $15 techniks collet ,,, I would not want to be buying a new $259 every month.

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    I don’t know diddly about cutting aluminum but a few years back I bought an end mill holder (i.e. “set screw”), ER32 collet chuck, hydraulic holder, milling chuck, and some other double angle thing collet chuck. I put them all in the same machine doing HSM tool paths with a 3/8” end mill in 4140. Of all of them the good ol end mill holders had the highest average tool life and the most consistent. Granted that was for my specific application several years ago but I’ve pretty much decided that side locks are good enough for me for the rest of my life and instead offer more time on trying different end mills....easier to acquire and test free samples. The thing I did like about the hydraulic was how incredibly easy it was to use. Good luck with your new machine!

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    Honestly, don't know much about hydraulic holders, but I think they are over-rated for general purpose use. If you have a need for one (of which I am not sure what they are good at), maybe, but for most applications an ER collet, or sidelock holder will be fine IMO.

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    I love er collets just because of the flexibility. Side locks work great too. If you are only doing normal job shop work those holders will be way more than adequate.

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    Like others here I think the ER32 size collet system will be plenty adequate for most work. I've run a lot of 3/4 carbide in aluminum at very robust feeds and depths without trouble. That includes tools with helix angles from 30 to 45 degrees. Clean you tools and tooling, use a torque wrench, and you should be fine.

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    Hydraulic holders are great for high speeds and high accuracy. If you are under 14000 rpms and +- .001 microns and know how to use radial comp it doesn't really have a justified price and collets work great. I have used YG1 a lot at this point and find they are a high quality company that can't charge extra for their name. Awesome tools and great price just don't let people know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Hydraulic holders are great for high speeds and high accuracy. If you are under 14000 rpms and +- .001 microns and know how to use radial comp it doesn't really have a justified price and collets work great. I have used YG1 a lot at this point and find they are a high quality company that can't charge extra for their name. Awesome tools and great price just don't let people know.
    I'm ordering some YG1 tooling to try out, most of what I've always used as been 45 degree helix from Helical.

    When I was taking night classes, we never went over different helix rates. To keep things simple I just used 45 degree with a corner radius and maybe go back to clean up the corner if it needed to be 90 degree corner. From what little digging I've done, roughers have lower helix while finisher have high. YG1 aluma power are 37 degree so half way between helical 30 degree rougher and 45 degree finisher.




    So far I've got the following in my cart from Maritool. This includes the full wrap around collet nut, pull stud wrench and tq wrench.

    1 ER32 collet set with extra 1/4, 3/8. I did have 1/8 but figure er32 holding a 1/8" shank tool is waste (correct me if I'm wrong)
    8 ER32 2.35 gauge holders
    2 ER32 1.85 gauge holders (Should I remove this and just get 10 of the 2.35 instead of these two)?
    2 1/4 end mill holders (2.5 gauge)
    2 3/8 end mill holder (2.25 gauge)
    1 1/2 end mill holder (2.25 gauge)
    3/16 end mill holder (2.75 gauge)


    ER16 collet set with extra 3/64, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8
    2 ER16 2.5 w/ mini nut
    5 ER16 2.5

    2 Keyless drill chucks

    Tool cart
    Tool tightening fixture

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    Dump the drill chucks- you don't really need them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    Dump the drill chucks- you don't really need them.
    I dunno, I've always found it nice to have a drill Chuck or 2...it becomes apparent when you need one more endmill and there's a drill sticking in your collect.

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    If you only have to drill a few odd size holes, it’s certainly quicker to put the drill in a chuck. All the “normally” used drills (common tap sizes and clearance holes) deserve a collet chuck


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    My .02

    Save your money, don't buy what you think you'll need. Don't buy flashy top notch tooling till you need it...and you will. Cause if your like me the tooling you buy is not what you'll need.

    In the beginning you will be busting up most of your endmills and tooling in general due to operator error, not because your wearing them out. My way of thinking is learn how to use what you have to its potential then you get to learn why the pricier tooling cost more, but saves you in the end. There is a heck of a learning curve to develop good consistent programs that make full use out of your tooling. Full on CNC that blows the chips away from the cutting edge so no re-cutting chips...or at least less, getting the right speeds and feeds with correct DOC, figuring out how best to hold parts so as not to have to rehandle them in additional operations...yet not have them come flying out of the machine when taking good cuts.

    As you go along you see what holders work best for you...I found ER 32/16 collets for drills and taps got me 90% there...then ER 8 for small drill. 1/2" endmill holders for reduced shank drills over 1/2". While Collets are nice for endmills I found better life using endmill holders...heavy roughing a little grind for set screw to hold better.

    Long gauge tooling is great for spot drills, drills and taps and when I NEED to get in tight with endmills...but shorter definitely lets me take better cuts with longer tool life. Then again too short can cause clearance issues. Whats best for you will show itself pretty quickly as you start to take on more jobs.

    Today its pretty great...need a hydraulic holder or long reach holder for a job...order it today, pay a few bucks extra for RED or through MSC and have it in your hands tomorrow. Nothing worse then having a Brand new 4" extended reach holder in the rack but need a 5"...happens all the time. Or a 1" depth of cut Endmills up the wazoo...but need 1-1/8". Top notch Stainless endmill...but running Aluminum or the other way.

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    And remember...it's ok to rough with an endmill in a drill chuck...


    Don't listen to me I'm only kidding ya


    Show of hands who's done it in a pinch...

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    Thanks guys, I did remove the extra 1/8 collet in er32 for more in er16.-

    I’ve reached out to a few tooling manufactures and one came back with a one time discount. So I’m trying to take advance of it. My tool holder budget is $4,500, small I know. That will leave me with $1000 for endmill/ good drill set. Not using it all in one time. The common sizes I’ll have enough on hand and then get a few odd sizes from a few past jobs that are repeat.

    Often times I wouldn’t buy more than 2 or 3 endmills, I honest early break tools. If i did it was because of z height or to big of a cut (1.5hp spindle) but now that I do job shop work and make my own products. Feel like I should keep at least 4-5 probably on hand and order when I get down to 2?


    I’m not trying to be cheap but smart/best bang for the buck

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    It's not a bad idea to have at least one say 5-6" length ER16 collet chuck to hold your dial test indicator in for setup use. The extra length is handy in keeping the head out of the way and giving you room to see and work and maybe turn a wrench. Also the long shank gives you something easy to turn for indicating in a bore or the likes. Probe equipped or not, I'd think you're still going to use an indicator once in awhile.

    I'm also surprised to not see a single 5/8, 3/4, 1, and 1 1/4" end mill holder on your list. Maybe all your work is on the small side? That or perhaps you're coming off years of operating a very small machine and are not used to considering larger cutters? Seems odd that's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    .....
    Show of hands who's done it in a pinch...
    YouTube
    Don't buy any more than what you need for what work you have.
    You are not getting a big buy discount here and it's mostly available off the shelf in a day or two.

    Nice to have lots of tooling around but it is money sitting on a shelf. Let that money sit on your suppliers shelf (and bank account) until you need it.
    For the brief intro to where you are I would not be buying hydraulics.
    Bob

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    Default First VMC...tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    It's not a bad idea to have at least one say 5-6" length ER16 collet chuck to hold your dial test indicator in for setup use. The extra length is handy in keeping the head out of the way and giving you room to see and work and maybe turn a wrench. Also the long shank gives you something easy to turn for indicating in a bore or the likes. Probe equipped or not, I'd think you're still going to use an indicator once in awhile.

    I'm also surprised to not see a single 5/8, 3/4, 1, and 1 1/4" end mill holder on your list. Maybe all your work is on the small side? That or perhaps you're coming off years of operating a very small machine and are not used to considering larger cutters? Seems odd that's all.
    The ER32 collet sett comes with up to 3/4. I've limited my self to 3/8 from small machine, it would cut with a 1/2 but trade for a increase cycle time. I've got some 1/2" endmils coming with LOC of 1-1/2 and/or 1-5/8.

    Thanks, I order a ER16 5"


    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    YouTube
    Don't buy any more than what you need for what work you have.
    You are not getting a big buy discount here and it's mostly available off the shelf in a day or two.

    Nice to have lots of tooling around but it is money sitting on a shelf. Let that money sit on your suppliers shelf (and bank account) until you need it.
    For the brief intro to where you are I would not be buying hydraulics.
    Bob
    Hey Bob, 100% agree with you regarding only buying what I need. For my products I need 12 Tool holders, figure a 13 in reserve would allow me to tool up my basic cutters.
    Last edited by Djstorm100; 12-26-2019 at 05:52 PM.


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