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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madis Reivik View Post
    Get a polycarbonate (Lexan) sheet with SCRATCHPROOF coating. Holds up much longer, as the surface is hard.
    Dont bother with tempered glass.
    Do you not care to see anything through the window in 6 months? "scratchproof" or not, polycarb is not going to stand up to 6's & 9's anywhere near as well as glass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Do you not care to see anything through the window in 6 months? "scratchproof" or not, polycarb is not going to stand up to 6's & 9's anywhere near as well as glass.
    Your giving it too much credit, first time the chip “spray” lines Up on that plastic window it’s gonna be frosted like Christmas night. A layer of glass In front of the poly would definitely protect it against coolant and chips

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    In that case, they are stupid. That's what the factories have used for the past 60 years, or more.
    You can not change any engineered safeties in Canada without accepting personal and corporate responsibility.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jephw View Post
    Thanks for the replies everyone. There is room for 24mm of glass, so I decided I will get a 1/2 piece of tempered glass and 1/2 piece of Lexan same size, based on your comments about Lexan. Bead of silicone to seal off when they're sandwiched should do the trick. That'll save me some money fersure. Cheers!
    You can see how the original "secure ig unit" was put together in the original door. It was made just how Emanuelgoldenstein says.

    I have only had to mess with them because a tap broke and a piece of it shattered the tempered saftey glass layer. The polycarb piece of ours was still perfect. I replaced it with a 3/16 piece of laminated saftey glass.

    Points I would suggest
    1 dont allow the glass and poly layers to touch. Any coolant or moisture that may get inside in the years to come will wick up from capillary action. Making it ugly and hard to see through.

    2 Dont use rtv silicone, use winshield urethane. I used clear rtv, which worked good but its been about 2 years and the RTV is growing small white whiskers which are floating around between the poly safety layer and outer most plastic window (the nl-nlx has 4 layers glass, poly, steel grid and thinner plex for forehead and fingerprints).

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    We have used Mach Safety Glass in the past and the prices were good. Like 1/5 the cost from Mazak. Machine Safety Glass, Inc. Home Page
    Very good company. I used to work for a major MTB and the prices we charged for glass were unreal.

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  9. #26
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    I can see cheaping out on a little baby lathe or on a 30 taper mill. On anything of reasonable size, especially if it's a lathe, I'd pay a reputable company to do it. Sure, sometimes no amount of precaution will prevent harm, but if something happens you want to have done what you can.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Do you not care to see anything through the window in 6 months? "scratchproof" or not, polycarb is not going to stand up to 6's & 9's anywhere near as well as glass.
    Personal experience?
    And there is thy why a nice window matters so much to many on a cnc.
    Seems to say I do not know if I did it right.
    Understand your program, push the green button and walk away. No Babysitting or watching should be needed.
    This kind of the deal a cnc over a manual machine tool. One not be hands on and watching things.
    Dad used to set in front a cnc and watch it run. It drove me nuts, we are paying you $200,000 per year to sit on a chair watching machine cycles?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Do you not care to see anything through the window in 6 months? "scratchproof" or not, polycarb is not going to stand up to 6's & 9's anywhere near as well as glass.
    On my Robodrill, 7+ years and no problem. Of course, there is seldom a spray of chips (except with facemill) and mostly aluminium.

    Coolant (Shell Dromus) does not harm scratchproof polycarb.

  12. #29
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    Years ago, in dad's shop, we had a Taiwanese CNC lathe that had a polycarb window. The chips blasted a hole in it within a year. This was just regular 1215 and 12L14 steel machined at normal speeds. After two replacements, I cobbled up an aluminum guard for portion nearest the chuck. Issue stopped but it still looked like crap.
    The glass is a better idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madis Reivik View Post
    On my Robodrill, 7+ years and no problem.
    Chips coming off a lathe are way worse than a machining center and aluminum is nothing ...

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Personal experience?
    And there is thy why a nice window matters so much to many on a cnc.
    Seems to say I do not know if I did it right.
    Understand your program, push the green button and walk away. No Babysitting or watching should be needed.
    This kind of the deal a cnc over a manual machine tool. One not be hands on and watching things.
    Dad used to set in front a cnc and watch it run. It drove me nuts, we are paying you $200,000 per year to sit on a chair watching machine cycles?
    Bob
    This is completely retarded. I had a boss many years ago that asked me why I needed a window at all. You sound just like him.

    Unless you're making really simple shit, then you need to see what's happening inside the machine.

    And Lexan absolutely sucks for machine windows. If you want to be able to see through it after a few weeks or maybe months, then it has to have glass on the inside.

    Unless you're running a tormach or something that doesn't have enough power to throw a chip at the window.

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  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    This is completely retarded. I had a boss many years ago that asked me why I needed a window at all. You sound just like him.
    To each his own. My thinking is that cncs are great in that you do have to sit in front of the machine for the whole cycle.
    Run on the sim, load part, green button walk away and trust that it will stop if something is not right.
    It does take some time to build this confidence, optional stops put in for a new tool on first part run so you can see that the offsets look right.
    I hate to see highly paid people or myself sitting and watching the computer do it's work.
    Agree that lexan even in the scratchproof has short life. But easy to cut and change so the guy that fills the coolant tanks and sweeps the floors can do it.
    I do not think he/she can cut glass to fit.

    Even when only running one machine I like to be programming the next parts or ops while the cutting is taking place.
    If things go bad the machine will talk to me as I not only have eyes but ears also.
    Assuming tool offsets checked for okay to not make big wrecks is it your eyes or your ears that throw the warning sign first when cutting a part?
    Mostly for me it is sounds bad and then go look.
    I do run a sim to make sure I will not take out a feature I should not and that makes me feel a tad better... like pissing down your leg I guess.

    Somewhere has to be considered one off parts and 5, 10, 100, 1000 piece runs which may skew things and how programed.
    One part in expensive stock yes babysit everything.
    Bob

  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    To each his own. My thinking is that cncs are great in that you do have to sit in front of the machine for the whole cycle.
    Run on the sim, load part, green button walk away and trust that it will stop if something is not right.
    It does take some time to build this confidence, optional stops put in for a new tool on first part run so you can see that the offsets look right.
    I hate to see highly paid people or myself sitting and watching the computer do it's work.
    Agree that lexan even in the scratchproof has short life. But easy to cut and change so the guy that fills the coolant tanks and sweeps the floors can do it.
    I do not think he/she can cut glass to fit.

    Even when only running one machine I like to be programming the next parts or ops while the cutting is taking place.
    If things go bad the machine will talk to me as I not only have eyes but ears also.
    Assuming tool offsets checked for okay to not make big wrecks is it your eyes or your ears that throw the warning sign first when cutting a part?
    Mostly for me it is sounds bad and then go look.
    I do run a sim to make sure I will not take out a feature I should not and that makes me feel a tad better... like pissing down your leg I guess.

    Somewhere has to be considered one off parts and 5, 10, 100, 1000 piece runs which may skew things and how programed.
    One part in expensive stock yes babysit everything.
    Bob
    I was in a bad mood when I responded previously, I apologise. Just finished a 36hr spell at work finishing up a bastard of a job, too wired to sleep now...

    Anyway, to each his own, yes I agree, and situational.

    We program and simulate offline using proven posts, and don't dry run at the machine, but we are almost exclusively low qty high value, with long cycle times, so machines are very rarely unsupervised, and windows are well maintained!

  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    In that case, they are stupid.
    Yeah, and? It doesn't absolve businesses from following ill-conceived rules or submitting to consequences should they be found liable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    1) Personal experience?
    And there is thy why a nice window matters so much to many on a cnc.
    Seems to say I do not know if I did it right.
    2)Understand your program, push the green button and walk away. No Babysitting or watching should be needed.
    This kind of the deal a cnc over a manual machine tool. One not be hands on and watching things.
    Dad used to set in front a cnc and watch it run. It drove me nuts, we are paying you $200,000 per year to sit on a chair watching machine cycles?
    Bob
    1) Yes, many times

    2) I can only assume you have to be kidding?! Especially a turning center! Doubly especially in shops with separate programmers and set-up guys.

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  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madis Reivik View Post
    On my Robodrill, 7+ years and no problem. Of course, there is seldom a spray of chips (except with facemill) and mostly aluminium.

    Coolant (Shell Dromus) does not harm scratchproof polycarb.
    On my Brother R650, 3.5 years in and you cant see a damn thing through the window. Like seriously nothing. All aluminum.
    I have a brand new window sitting here just showed up yesterday.

  22. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    3) Just how much CNC machining experience do you have anyways?
    I wish I had more, first a couple of Milwauke-matics but that tape so not real cnc.
    I did send some time trying to convince Cincinnati-Milacron to look into these these things called microprocessors rather than DECs as it seemed Fanuc would soon clean up.
    For a brief time wrote microcode for Fanuc.
    Almost all machines in my building are cnc but run under my own controls and software on Galil and Delta-Tau. It is now only 80,000 lines of code.
    I think I have some chips in my shoes........ but who knows...... all this just makes me a outdated dinosaur so your poke is well taken and I hope someday to be good at it.
    I try and that's all I can I can do. My views may be stupid but I put them out for consideration.
    Bob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1966-kearney-trecker-milwaukee-matic-eb-milling-machine.jpg   mill.jpg  

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  24. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Understand your program, push the green button and walk away. No Babysitting or watching should be needed.
    I guess every one of your programs is perfect first time out

    Mine are not that good. Get a nest of chips somewhere, where ? see where I could retract a bit more/less, at block 270 coolant doesn't get up to the cut fast enough, should move the M08 up a block ... nice to have a window if you do a lot of different parts and aren't good enough to be perfect on the first try.

    About Canada's safety regs ... it's THE SAME as what comes from the factory ! But it is funny to hear people shaking in fear of the authoritarian government, over there in your freedom-loving countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I wish I had more, first a couple of Milwauke-matics but that tape so not real cnc.
    I did send some time trying to convince Cincinnati-Milacron to look into these these things called microprocessors rather than DECs as it seemed Fanuc would soon clean up.
    For a brief time wrote microcode for Fanuc.
    Almost all machines in my building are cnc but run under my own controls and software on Galil and Delta-Tau. It is now only 80,000 lines of code.
    I think I have some chips in my shoes........ but who knows...... all this just makes me a outdated dinosaur so your poke is well taken and I hope someday to be good at it.
    I try and that's all I can I can do. My views may be stupid but I put them out for consideration.
    Bob
    That is pretty much what I thought! (about your experience)

    But, in red ^^^^^^:

    "consideration" and advice are two very different things.
    Your post was probably more opinion than advice based on your shop/practices. But it kind of came across as advice.
    Most of us still need to prove out new programs. And good visibility is a HUGE part of that.

    And, glass for visibility, poly-carb for safety, is still the industry standard. And for good reason in my opinion.

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    Just my thoughts, not that I know anything.

    One might try automotive safety glass for an inside layer backed by as thick a layer of polycarbonate as you can afford. I believe airline windshields are approx 1".

    But that brings me to a story although I cannot vouch it's truth.

    The French when they were working on their high speed train wanted to test their windshields so they borrowed a test machine from Boeing.
    Said machine launched chickens at candidate windshields and every test broke a windshield. They asked Boeing to review their procedure.
    A very cryptic note came back from Boeing. "It would help if you thawed the chickens before testing".

    Some early radars would cook flights of geese that got in the beam. ..... which would indicate that the frequency of the radar was very close to the
    resonance of water ... ~2450 MHz ... Opps! Not all tests go as planned.


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