Going from a Fadal to a Doosan DNM 500II in two months-what say you?

The shop I work is buying two new Doosan DNM 500II VMCs with the high speed spindle, large cap tool changer, and 4th axis (other options I'm not sure of yet). Delivery is set for late March on these new toys.

I'm going to be running one of them, and am curious as to what you fellas that have been around them think of these mills.

At work we have six Fadals- a VMC15, 4 4020's, and a 6030. I program and run one of the 4020's. Four of the mills have the CNC88HS control, which I've come to love for at the machine programming. It's so damn easy to use (the old school keyboard rocks IMO LOL).

From what I've gotten off the website (which truthfully is very little by way of the PDF brochure) is that the machine has a Fanuc i series control.

I know nothing about this control.

At the shop I used to work, I programmed a Milltronics Centurion 6 on an MB 18, and our 1986 Victor turning center, which had a Fanuc 10T.

So my experience with controls are limited to the 88HS, the Centurion 6, and the 10T. The Centurion was nice, LCD screen, displayed graphics while it ran, all conversational. Once I got a grasp on code and typing out canned cycles, I liked the 10T even better. I like seeing the code.

The Fadal (to me) is a nice balance between the two. Tool calls and canned cycles so damn easy, plus I just insert lines of code or edit like the ol' 10T.

Is this i series decent to work with? Easily navigated? Canned cycles with a couple of key strokes? Live graphic display?

Also, any opinions on the iron side of things? Guessing a bit sturdier than the Fadal (weighs about a ton and a half more). The tool change time will be shocking I think, and am curious how the Big Plus spindle stacks up against a standard 40 taper.

Thanks for checking in Gents.

I don't know anything about a Doosan..

But where I used to work, we had a Fadal and Mazak FJV. The Mazak was only 1200 or so inch a minute rapids, and the Fadal
was 900... Seems like only a little bit... But it wasn't.. The Mazak was point to point, not dog leg like a Fadal...

And the accelerations.. WOW... On a Fadal, you can leave the vise handles on.. Not on that Mazak.. That table took off,
and the vise handles were sitting there in the middle of the air, like Wile E Coyote before he realized he was falling off a cliff.

Though I do have to ask.. Nice shiny new fast machines... But no CAM package?

The CAT40 and BT40 are the same taper with a different drive key setup, but the Doosan will be guaranteed to blow the Fadals out of the water in spindle rigidity so it'll seem like there's a big difference. Oh and it looks like they come standard with Big Plus dual contact, so yeah, it's going to be balls-out more rigid. Brochure also says over 1400 IPM rapids

http://www.doosanmachinetools.com/b...-heavy-duty/dnm-400II-500II-650II-english.pdf

They do have a CAM system, and not real lightweight either.

Programming at the control might be a different issue. When I was using Fanuc they were old and everything at that job was Mastercam, so it was re-post and go.

But BPiD2, you're gonna have fun with it. No more gritting your teeth and chasing a thou around like Elmer Fudd going after Bugs Bunny down a hole.

Standard 8k spindle, or did they go for the 12k? Seems like you folks could use the 12k for some of those smaller end mills.

We'll have to get together for a beer so you can brag about 'em!

Edit: oh boy, still coming with 256k of program memory

Bobw-

The programming I do at the machine is basic stuff-linear moves, some arcs, interpolate holes, drill, tap. Think die parts. Some A axis stuff too.

Like Atomkinder said, we have a decent CAM system-Edgecam-and all of the complex geometry is generated and posted using it by our programmer. I'm not coding 3D stuff at the machine. Going to be learning Edgecam here soon.

One of the major differences between the fadal and the fanuc is that with the fadal you can start anywhere in the program, it reads all the modal commands from above but the fanuc will not do this, so you have to make sure you start at the beginning of the tool or at least above or at the height offset.

Atomkinder said:

The CAT40 and BT40 are the same taper with a different drive key setup, but the Doosan will be guaranteed to blow the Fadals out of the water in spindle rigidity so it'll seem like there's a big difference. Oh and it looks like they come standard with Big Plus dual contact, so yeah, it's going to be balls-out more rigid. Brochure also says over 1400 IPM rapids

http://www.doosanmachinetools.com/b...-heavy-duty/dnm-400II-500II-650II-english.pdf

They do have a CAM system, and not real lightweight either.

Programming at the control might be a different issue. When I was using Fanuc they were old and everything at that job was Mastercam, so it was re-post and go.

But BPiD2, you're gonna have fun with it. No more gritting your teeth and chasing a thou around like Elmer Fudd going after Bugs Bunny down a hole.

Standard 8k spindle, or did they go for the 12k? Seems like you folks could use the 12k for some of those smaller end mills.

We'll have to get together for a beer so you can brag about 'em!

Edit: oh boy, still coming with 256k of program memory

Click to expand...

Atomkinder-

The Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny down a hole image made me damn near spit my beer on the screen. LOL, it is certainly that on a daily basis.

Yes, they did go with the 12k spindles. They're starting to realize that if we're going to do this work, we need the R's to crank those little guys to where they like to run. On the same note, we're still going to run big carbide roughers like always.

About the beers-I'm always up for a few. I'll buy this round!

Flipz87 said:

One of the major differences between the fadal and the fanuc is that with the fadal you can start anywhere in the program, it reads all the modal commands from above but the fanuc will not do this, so you have to make sure you start at the beginning of the tool or at least above or at the height offset.

Click to expand...

Well, that'll suck. Starting in the middle of a block is something I use all the time on the Fadals. Guess I'll get to go piss, grab a Coke, and wipe down the Bridgeport while that cheap carbide pretends to be a helicopter's rotor.

BridgeportinD2 said:

Well, that'll suck. Starting in the middle of a block is something I use all the time on the Fadals. Guess I'll get to go piss, grab a Coke, and wipe down the Bridgeport while that cheap carbide pretends to be a helicopter's rotor.

Click to expand...

Make sure you let your programmer know to edit his post. You want safe start codes at every tool change. And an N number that corresponds to the tool number sure makes it easy to jump through the program at the control.

Something like this:


M1;

N600 (Tool 6, 1/2" Sq. Endmill);
T6M6;
G54 G80 G98 And whatever other safe start codes you use here;


Then you can just hit "N600 + Down arrow" and skip right to where you want to start.


Apologies if this is something basic you already know/do, just something relevant to Fanuc controls that I thought might help.

You bought a couple of nice machines. 12K spindle standard. EZ Guide i for at machine programming. Comes standard with Renishaw receiver, you must buy the tool setter and probe, TSC standard. I am only slightly biased since I work for Doosan. I have run many, many machines and truly believe Doosan makes nice equipment. Fanuc Oi does have program restart standard. PM me or contact me here or any of us in New Jersey for additional help besides your dealer. I'll help any way I can. Is Ellison your dealer? Anything else you want to know about these?

Paul Anderson
Applications Engineer
Doosan Infracore
973-618-2457

I've never heard anything bad about a Doosan, but I can assure you that it will be much better than your Fadal.
Personally I hate the Fanuc control but that's because I'm biased toward Okuma's controls, that being said Fanuc controls are very easy.
As said above.. make sure your programmer edits the post to where you can start at any tool change or operation, this will make your life MUCH MUCH easier when starting in the middle of a program.