A good Fadal Rotary Chuck?

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 10, 2020

I bought this older fadal with this rotary but its missing the chuck now. I have asked the seller to provide it since its not there anymore but was in the pictures.
Question is whats a good average Manufacture of a chuck I "SHOULD" use.. 3 jaw or 4 self centering.
I haven't taken delivery yet.

Delw · Feb 10, 2020

Any chuck will work, they have a backing plate holding with t-nuts onto the 4th itself.

3 jaw is self centering 4 jaw is not normally self centering.

My opinion get a 2 piece jaw chuck that you can precut jaws for ( they will also have a set of hardend master jaws) this way you have the best of both worlds.
depending on the size of your parts a 5c collet nose on that 4th will save you a ton of time money and headach(but only if you do small parts

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 10, 2020

Delw said:
Any chuck will work, they have a backing plate holding with t-nuts onto the 4th itself.

3 jaw is self centering 4 jaw is not normally self centering.

My opinion get a 2 piece jaw chuck that you can precut jaws for ( they will also have a set of hardend master jaws) this way you have the best of both worlds.
depending on the size of your parts a 5c collet nose on that 4th will save you a ton of time money and headach(but only if you do small parts

Thanks for the info, I don't understand the 5C chuck and how that would be less headache. Could you steer me a bit, I am pretty darn green.

Delw · Feb 10, 2020

Hot Headz Marine said:
Thanks for the info, I don't understand the 5C chuck and how that would be less headache. Could you steer me a bit, I am pretty darn green.

we do tons of small parts some thin some not.
a 5c 20s even 16c collet nose allows you to hold lightly on FULL dia. not tweaking the parts.
a 3jaw chuck or a 4 jaw will mark up small parts have them pull out of the chuck and 3point or 4point the parts unless you use full circle jaws which are expensive compared to collets and you would have to cut them. ie like plastic parts brass thin alum etc etc a collet is better.

5c collet runs to about 1-1/8 dia in 64th increments and close if you want from hardinge. about 25-40 per collet
16c runs up to 1-3/4" about 80 bucks a collet
20s you can get pads up to 2" 80 bucks a set of 3 pads providing you have the master collet.

a 3 or 4 jaw you wont be able to hold on 1/4" short lengths of a part and do work to it with out it falling out of the jaws or cocking. as your only holding on 3 points of that 1/4" dia

Again it all depends what your making.

I have a 3 jaw on mine for some big parts I used it like half a dozen times in 30+ years most of the time I use a collet nose in either 5c 16c or 20s

Granted I have lathes so I have a ton of collets and collet noses. I bought a cheap bison one with a chuck key and tossed it in the garbage.
I have a draw bar type system I made to lock the collet down (just a piece of metal with threads in it to match the collet threads)

Bobw · Feb 10, 2020

You need an adapter plate and a face mount chuck.

I think it was US shop tools that I got that stuff from years ago.

It wasn't free, the adaptor is nothing and if I remember right, it
wasn't all that expensive. A face mount 6" chuck is not cheap, at
least compared to the chinese version of the same chuck that is
not a face mount. By face mount, I mean able to be mounted with
bolts from the face.

There is a little trick. Drilling 3 holes in a chuck is not that hard.
and it will save you a few bucks.

The 5C closers are nice, especially if all you are doing is messing around
with small round stuff, less than 1" diameter. It seems like something that
you should be able to get aftermarket, but I've never looked.

Why are the 5C's nice? Once you get them dialed in, they stay there, as long
as your collets aren't crap. A 3 jaw will wear and spring over time. Also,
the diameter of a collet closer set up is a lot smaller, you are a lot less
likely to have an "Interference" problem (CRASH) with a tool holder. And its
just a lever, pull it, part comes out, put new part in, push lever, hit green
button. No dicking around with a chuck key or any of that mess.

There are also collet setups that go bigger. 3J's or 16C's or something like that.

Ianagos · Feb 11, 2020

I recommend you get the chuck. I can go back and talk to the seller. This is the issue with dealers they try to stiff you every way they can.

With the chuck you can always just hold a 5c collet block but with only 5c you are really limited.

The adapter plate looks like a a series mount those chucks are cheap and easy to come by.

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 12, 2020

Ianagos said:
I recommend you get the chuck. I can go back and talk to the seller. This is the issue with dealers they try to stiff you every way they can.

With the chuck you can always just hold a 5c collet block but with only 5c you are really limited.

The adapter plate looks like a a series mount those chucks are cheap and easy to come by.

I spoke with Andrew, he says he has a chuck but will need a backing plate. I kinda like the idea of the collet.. 16c would hold more of the size I will be working with. Mounting the 16c or and or 5c would be purchase something or make something.. Drill holes.. ect... Like Bob said above on the china chuck?

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 12, 2020

Bobw; There are also collet setups that go bigger. 3J's or 16C's or something like that.[/QUOTE said:
Always good advice. I really appreciate it. Ian has been very helpful by going to inspect the old girl. I just signed off on it today so hope I didn't throw myself under the bus again.. HEY.. its no Acroloc at the very least.. LOL I kinda miss that machine. Museum Piece.

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 12, 2020

Ianagos said:
I recommend you get the chuck. I can go back and talk to the seller. This is the issue with dealers they try to stiff you every way they can.

With the chuck you can always just hold a 5c collet block but with only 5c you are really limited.

The adapter plate looks like a a series mount those chucks are cheap and easy to come by.

These instructions and manuals look right for the machine I am getting? https://www.fadalcnc.com/tech-docs
He said he has the books on it but was reading up on these.

Bobw · Feb 12, 2020

Thats the cool thing about a Fadal. They were basically the same exact machines from the late 80's (and maybe a bit earlier) up into the early/mid 2000's.

Yeah, there were upgrades on boards along the way, and some components, and the DC to AC drive change in the mid 90's, but they were still all essentially the same.. And they sold a TON of them..

Those manuals online are almost identical to the ones you are going to get with the machine.

I use the online manuals all the time. I haven't cracked open a physical Fadal manual in damn near a decade.

And here is another cool thing about Fadal's, there is a condensed very simplified version of the manuals right in the control.

Can't remember the exact syntax for a G84. Type MU, find the page, and there it is.. No need to even look it up in the manual or online. Error codes, those are in there too, and a bunch of other stuff.

In my opinion it is the easiest control in the world to use. Tell it what you want to do, and it literally baby steps you through what you have to do.

Ianagos · Feb 12, 2020

Bobw said:
In my opinion it is the easiest control in the world to use. Tell it what you want to do, and it literally baby steps you through what you have to do.

I got into a discussion with some friends this morning about this. I was arguing that I thought a fadal was easier than haas and they are all telling me there’s no way a 20 year old control could be any good. But to me it’s way quicker an easier than the haas controls where you gotta enter 30 buttons if you can remember where they are because there’s about 200 of them. But maybe I’m biased because I learned on fadal and own a couple.

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 13, 2020

Ianagos said:
I got into a discussion with some friends this morning about this. I was arguing that I thought a fadal was easier than haas and they are all telling me there’s no way a 20 year old control could be any good. But to me it’s way quicker an easier than the haas controls where you gotta enter 30 buttons if you can remember where they are because there’s about 200 of them. But maybe I’m biased because I learned on fadal and own a couple.

He got under your skin.. don't sweat it.. to me I look at it like Iphone or Android. whats your preference... I had barely started learning the commands on Fanuc 11M and Had enough confidence quick to move forward but the machine was a Relic . Now off to another older control but so many know it " Fadal" seems like the Small Block Chevy of the small industry.

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 13, 2020

Fadla 4020 Installation & Leveling Pads?

:scratchchin:

Mandatory I would think yes? Level. any ideas or suggestions on what would be best to use? purchased items or in house shims maybe.
I never leveled my last machine.. wasn't worth it after I dropped it 3 ft.
My concrete is pretty level.

Did these machines come with adjustments already? I guess I wont know until its here.

Bobw · Feb 13, 2020

Just drop it onto some 1/2" thick, 4x4 pads. or 3x3 or 6x6.
Whatever you have kicking around.

The accelerations on a Fadal are so slow that its not going to move.
So pocketing them isn't that important.

Older 4020's had 4 feet, and in '95 or so, they went to 6 feet.

If you just put the feet onto concrete, that is a TON* of pressure,
much higher than concrete could really deal with..

*Ton. Its actually WAY more than that(Thats wrong). I think the leveling screws are
1" or so in diameter. So even with 6 feet, you are looking at approximately.

*Does Math*

Hey.. What do you know. 2000ish + PSI.

Just moving to some 3x3 pads, even with only 4 feet,
and you are at about 300psi to the concrete.

To your last question, yes, there are leveling screws built into the machine.

And remember, level is just a nice starting point. The goal is to get the
machine cutting square. And a tweak here and there on the feet can make a
difference.

Hot Headz Marine · Feb 13, 2020

Bobw said:
Just drop it onto some 1/2" thick, 4x4 pads. or 3x3 or 6x6.
Whatever you have kicking around.

The accelerations on a Fadal are so slow that its not going to move.
So pocketing them isn't that important.

Older 4020's had 4 feet, and in '95 or so, they went to 6 feet.

If you just put the feet onto concrete, that is a TON* of pressure,
much higher than concrete could really deal with..

*Ton. Its actually WAY more than that(Thats wrong). I think the leveling screws are
1" or so in diameter. So even with 6 feet, you are looking at approximately.

*Does Math*

Hey.. What do you know. 2000ish + PSI.

Just moving to some 3x3 pads, even with only 4 feet,
and you are at about 300psi to the concrete.

To your last question, yes, there are leveling screws built into the machine.

And remember, level is just a nice starting point. The goal is to get the
machine cutting square. And a tweak here and there on the feet can make a
difference.

Sounds Like years of experience talking. I understand.

Delw · Feb 13, 2020

Hot Headz Marine said:
Sounds Like years of experience talking. I understand.

one thing to add if you make leveling pads make sure you put a like c-bore in them to hold the screw, this way the machine wont walk off the pad, never seen it happen but told it does

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