Haas B Axis Millturn/Multitasking Concept
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    Default Haas B Axis Millturn/Multitasking Concept

    Interesting concept machine from haas?

    VMT 750, VF mill with a ST spindle and a B axis head(looks like indexing only) and HSK tooling

    At around -2:00 from end
    HaasTec Live Wednesday September 16, 2020 - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    At around -2:00 from end
    Your link is to an ongoing live stream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Your link is to an ongoing live stream.
    Oops, I thought it was done already.
    It starts 15 minutes from the beginning, and you can always scroll back even if its still live.

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    Found it. Looks neat, I can see a lot of applications for it. I'm sure it'll be priced much lower than an Integrex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Found it. Looks neat, I can see a lot of applications for it. I'm sure it'll be priced much lower than an Integrex.

    I thought about posting the same ... but thought "Meh" as it's a "Concept" machine in early stages so maybe quite some time (if at all) when it comes "To market" / buyable.

    The figure $150K was bandied about.

    Built on a VF3 I believe and the Turning unit is mounted on what would be a regular table. The B axis on the mill head looked interesting and use of HSK interface for tool positions that makes sense for milling spindle indexing (for turning) + collet chuck on turning spindle.

    Hard to get an integrex anything (new) for under $300K.

    Work volume for the HAAS machine is larger than one would suppose.

    If the mill table could be used as such + additional tail stock ... might be handy dandy.

    Not sure how well or accurately the "C-axis" indexes or contours ?

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    There will be no bar feeder option with the spindle traveling and there is a lot of weight on the XY axis with the turning spindle and tailstock, the UMC1500 base would probably fit better for this application?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    I thought about posting the same ... but thought "Meh" as it's a "Concept" machine in early stages so maybe quite some time (if at all) when it comes "To market" / buyable.
    It does show how they approach the multitasking market, the other MTB started with a Lathe and added milling this is potentially cheaper but has lots of downsides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    There will be no bar feeder option with the spindle traveling and there is a lot of weight on the XY axis with the turning spindle and tailstock, the UMC1500 base would probably fit better for this application?
    Quite possibly ...

    UMC 1500 Duo (two tabled ) effort is about $200K , so somehow devise a B axis on the ram style and remove the Sim 5 axis universal platter ?

    Starts to creep towards an inetgrex price wise + the integrex is of an accuracy that HAAS will never achieve even in hundred years.

    In principal I think fixed table machines have more promise to bolt on all kinds of extended "gizmos". Providing the table is not too deep.

    If HAAS had a B axis mill with the Z oriented rotary that could be flipped to an A orientation like the Hurco Swivel head 5 axis machines might be "Good".

    Seems HAAS haas a number of kinks to iron out with their current newer offerings / "control issues" (front and back) ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    It does show how they approach the multitasking market, the other MTB started with a Lathe and added milling this is potentially cheaper but has lots of downsides.
    Interesting the senior engineers at MAZAK try to bill an Integrex as a "Mill" that happens to "Do" turning. Hence the deeper Y travel than is typical. Also they emphasize that a mill especially a 5 axis / B axis mill is engineered to a much higher standard than a typical "Lathe" (in their words).

    Even Tormach had a patent for what they called a "Duality" lathe - basically a lathe unit bolted onto the their PCNC 1100.

    My frustration a bit with an integrex is that you can't drop in a long skinny mill table. Some have done different hacks (that I'm not allowed to talk about.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post

    Seems HAAS haas a number of kinks to iron out with their current newer offerings / "control issues" (front and back) ?
    That was expected, No? pushing out so many new designs at once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Quite possibly ...

    UMC 1500 Duo (two tabled ) effort is about $200K , so somehow devise a B axis on the ram style and remove the Sim 5 axis universal platter ?

    Starts to creep towards an inetgrex price wise + the integrex is of an accuracy that HAAS will never achieve even in hundred years.
    The Integrex is just 300K? Doosan SMX is around 500K with a lower turret.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    The Integrex is just 300K? Doosan SMX is around 500K with a lower turret.
    I haven't quoted an Integrex, but it seems totally possible to get into a base model for 300-ish. Not sure if Doosan makes an equivalent to that little i-100. Mazak likes to push single channel machines too, which does keep the price down quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Interesting the senior engineers at MAZAK try to bill an Integrex as a "Mill" that happens to "Do" turning. Hence the deeper Y travel than is typical. Also they emphasize that a mill especially a 5 axis / B axis mill is engineered to a much higher standard than a typical "Lathe" (in their words).

    Even Tormach had a patent for what they called a "Duality" lathe - basically a lathe unit bolted onto the their PCNC 1100.

    My frustration a bit with an integrex is that you can't drop in a long skinny mill table. Some have done different hacks (that I'm not allowed to talk about.).
    With Lathe I meant more about the Bar-Feeder Sub-spindle Lower turret and Chip evacuation of a lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    The Integrex is just 300K? Doosan SMX is around 500K with a lower turret.
    i-200 single turning spindle milling spindle 12,00 rpm (base spindle) no counter spindle , no stead rest, no lower turret etc. around $300K scale price with machine size i-400 etc.

    The J series is not that much of a $ saved.

    An Intrgex bartac type machine (smaller frame) but much larger spindle bore can start around $400K.

    but throw in capto or HSK higher rpm spindle , proper steady rest etc. it all starts to get spendy real quick.

    I try to stay away from lower turrets ... (too much for me lol) + added complexity outside of Japan that is difficult to manage well on US soil (perhaps). I think some of the smaller 2016 DMG Mori offerings (Seemed the lower turret would flex or distort the frame in an adverse way.). Doing work on two or three spindles at the same time really "Amps" up the vibrations bouncing around a machine.

    Some of the Doosan mill turn offerings look interesting ~ Seems Titan's week long info-mercial is going gangbusters.

    Was some mutterings of DEM 4000 hack for turning but didn't know if what Titan meant was the "Leo" 1600.

    Interesting educational push / partnership with Doosan.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Fixed table machine that you could crane in a turning option (left side) and long skinny table with B axis mill travelling on an "Upright piano" style casting or regular mill head might be more flexible multitasking + more hands on mill turn for ultra precise set ups; (maybe) ? A to C axis single rotary "flip" good for a lot of 5 axis work in combination with a B axis mill head but all has to be pretty damn accurate for it all to hang together properly ~ Hurco B axis mill heads position to +/- 7 arc seconds , Integrex a few arc seconds of the order of +/- 3 arc seconds or better. HAAS newer UMC fighting to get to +/- 20 arc seconds with direct read ring encoders ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    With Lathe I meant more about the Bar-Feeder Sub-spindle Lower turret and Chip evacuation of a lathe.
    Sure (I got yah :-) ).

    I'm glad at least to see another MTB has attempted to put a B axis on a mill spindle.

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    I wouldn't mind one of these for bone plates:
    Bumotec s191H BONE PLATE - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    I try to stay away from lower turrets ... (too much for me lol) + added complexity outside of Japan that is difficult to manage well on US soil (perhaps). I think some of the smaller 2016 DMG Mori offerings (Seemed the lower turret would flex or distort the frame in an adverse way.). Doing work on two or three spindles at the same time really "Amps" up the vibrations bouncing around a machine.
    Much of the complains on multitasking machines is the slow speed of tool changes compared to a Lathe, isn't this the main benefit of a lower turret, plus you have a steady/follower rest, you don't need to use it simultaneously.

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    The dual arm ATC with tool staging can by pretty quick. It won't compete with a turret for high volume work, but the tradeoff is you get much more versatility. 40 or 50 tools in the carousel without having to worry about bumping the adjacent tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    The dual arm ATC with tool staging can by pretty quick. It won't compete with a turret for high volume work, but the tradeoff is you get much more versatility. 40 or 50 tools in the carousel without having to worry about bumping the adjacent tool.
    Not sure what machine you are talking about, but on every mill turn I have run - the tool changes are about the longest 15 seconds of your life. Mill turns are awesome, but they are usually slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post

    Fixed table machine that you could crane in a turning option (left side) and long skinny table with B axis mill travelling on an "Upright piano" style casting or regular mill head might be more flexible multitasking + more hands on mill turn for ultra precise set ups; (maybe) ?
    These guys definitely make one with a lathe spindle on the left side so that it functions more like a traditional horizontal mill turn.
    ZVH Multiprocess: Moving column with tilting head for milling and turning operations. Look at picture six; it's the one machine for everything!

    I imagine for a fabulous premium the DMG MORI DMF 260 or similar could also be setup that way, but I've never seen it.

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