Haas Deflection/out of tolerance - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmarkit View Post
    Well I pulled the spindle cover off last night and started to pry on stuff while moving a tenths indicator around. The spindle column is definitely moving. Ill be able to dig into it today.

    Can someone else run that same tool recipe and tell me what a good machine should machine run?
    how much is it moving???

    Get a long straight gage pin, ground bar or make one on a lathe that has no taper. put it in the tool holder (3/4 or bigger is best)
    then run an indicator on 4 different side and move the z axis up and down. if you get taper your z head, or spindle squareness is off. but before you determine that try a different holder to make sure its not your draw bar clamping wrong or bad tool holder. also try re clamping the tool a few times.

    if that dials good then put pressure on the head in the x directions then try in the y directions. it shouldn't move but a few tenths if that.

    I cut with 1/2" alumstars 1.5 depth and 2" depth. I get a few tenths taper at most, I also take 2 finish dry pass's on 2" or more and 1 on 1.5 or less
    I run usually about 3500rpms on finish pass roughing1.5" or longer depths(always leaving .008 per side for finish pass) I run 5000-8000rpms for rough depending on side DOC.
    its a vf2ss I run slower than most.

    I am assuming you ran a new unused endmill and also checked the endmill to see if it was tapered its rare but it happens.
    what happends if you run the same endmill 1" depth you get a big taper still? how about a short endmill at .500 length any taper at all?

  2. #22
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    The big size difference between a normal run and 2 springs passes concerns me.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    The big size difference between a normal run and 2 springs passes concerns me.

    Yes, abynormal.

    Thinking about this more, .005" in 1.5" is .04" a foot. That has to be more than the Z axis ways!

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    So I was able to dig into a little today. Im seeing movement in the lower linear rail trucks while applying force with a 2x4. I get about .0008 movement on the truck and no movement on the rail. The rails did feel pretty tight when I installed them. Now my concern is why did they not last.

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    So either I installed them wrong or they were junk. I did have to buy some oil fitting adapters from haas because the new rails were different and when I asked if it was a updated I was told No haas shops around for the cheapest ones. Still not saying I couldnt have made a mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmarkit View Post
    So I was able to dig into a little today. Im seeing movement in the lower linear rail trucks while applying force with a 2x4. I get about .0008 movement on the truck and no movement on the rail. The rails did feel pretty tight when I installed them. Now my concern is why did they not last.
    .0008 with pressure using a 2x4 isnt going to equate to .014 taper on a dry pass. you have some other things wrong as well. I would start looking at other issues.before thinking tahts your main problem.

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  8. #27
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    At some point you are going to have to do some math.
    You need to figure out whats moving and in what direction.

    Ie if the bottom Z trucks have .0008 slop, but the top is tight, assume the pivot point is the top trucks and draw some triangles where the length is the end of the tool to the top truck.

    When you draw the triangle ask yourself if the results on the work support what you drew, if the answer is No, then regroup.

    If the answer is yes, then you can validate this by running the same part with longer guage length (assuming you already are using shortest)tool holder(problem should get worse, but be proportionally worse every where)

    All this assumes its Z and not the table/work/ fixture tilting





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Wow thanks. I dont think Ive would have thought of this. So I drew it in solidworks and .0008 at the lower truck pivoting from the upper truck I get .016 at the tip of the tool. So I feel safe to say its the linear rails. Now help me understand why the wore out so quick

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    Does that agree with the angle you are seeing on the part? It should at least be close. As others have said, we think you have other issues than the Z-axis ways to see that much taper in 1.5". How much movement at the tool do you see, using an indicator? In X and Y axis isolating them from the table, as in only measure head movement and not the table too.

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    Yes I see .013" at the tool so .016" with a 2x4 seems pretty accurate to me. Obviously I don't know much pressure a tool applies to apply equal pressure with a 2x4. I placed the indicator base on the frame of the machine and tip if the indicator on the linear rail truck. So the indicator was not effected by X or Y movement. Also I cant see how X or Y would effect vertical taper.

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    actually i read that wrong its only .0016" on the computer Ill do more test.

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    Think in triangles. The base line with the part is a 1.5" long leg with a .005" short leg, does the angle of that triangle agree with the triangle you create with whatever slop you find in your machine. Bending the cutter will be some but not much of the .005".

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    Okay going somewhat along with the same question. How fast do these haas ball screws wear. I know the previous owner replaces Z axis every year. Y every other year and X accordingly. I just checked my records and its been 7.5 months sense I replaced x and y. They were adjusted to less than .0001 Just checked and I had .0012 backlash. I was able to adjust it out but is that normal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmarkit View Post
    Okay going somewhat along with the same question. How fast do these haas ball screws wear. I know the previous owner replaces Z axis every year. Y every other year and X accordingly. I just checked my records and its been 7.5 months sense I replaced x and y. They were adjusted to less than .0001 Just checked and I had .0012 backlash. I was able to adjust it out but is that normal?
    Ive worked on a bunch of Haas Machines, I've never seen one need anything (ok a few spindles) in the span of a few years. The one I work with now is like 12 years old and it "may" need the y looked at, but that's because someone crashed something into the back y way cover and it allowed coolant and whatever else in a few years ago.

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    Is your oiler working???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmarkit View Post
    Okay going somewhat along with the same question. How fast do these haas ball screws wear. I know the previous owner replaces Z axis every year. Y every other year and X accordingly. I just checked my records and its been 7.5 months sense I replaced x and y. They were adjusted to less than .0001 Just checked and I had .0012 backlash. I was able to adjust it out but is that normal?
    The honest answer? someone doesnt know what the f'k there doing on the installation. sell the machine buy another one or have someone fix it that knows what the f'k there doing. its that simple.

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  20. #37
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    Something is way not right here.
    You replaced the rails and trucks , where did they come from and in the right preload?
    Alignment to the X-Y-Z system was done how?
    Please don't tell you just bolted these on or bought unknown trucks as I will run away fast if so.
    Bob

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    Bob- he stated above that all the parts came from the HFO except the spindle.

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    you said it's a 2" LOC endmill in a shrink fit holder. What's the gauge length of holder? Is it a slender body holder? Tool and holder can be deflecting.

    Have you tried a short length side lock endmill holder. How are you holding the piece your machining? Is it rigid or sitting tall?

    What happens if you dial back your speeds and feeds on your initial cut...say 3000rpm .02 axial cut at a feed of say 15 inches a minute.

    Once you introduce a taper...it's tough to get it out, even with spring passes unless all is extremely rigid AKA not a Haas. But even long 3flute that are sharp deflect a good amount.



    For what it's worth I have a 91 VF-1 that has been run daily in all material, runs 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Motors, cables thrust bearing, amps, vector drives and gearbox have gone...have never touched a ball screw, rail or nut on any axis and it still holds sizes very well.

  23. #40
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    Ok so to be clear I have done all the work myself sense owning the machine. The previous owner had everything done by there local HFO sense new and I was not impressed. All the spanner nuts had chisel marks on them so I'm pretty sure they weren't torqued properly and all the oil metering fitting were plugged up. I installed a oil drip sight glass when installing the new spindle and all new oil metering orifices so i know they are getting oil. I can also see a film of oil on the ball screws and rails. I used the Haas ball screw installation procedure they have on there website.
    When I installed the linear rails I started by re leveling the machine. Then from what i had read online there is usually a master and slave rail. This Haas has ledges on both sides that the rails go up against with cam bolts to push it tight against the machined casting. After installing the rails I had .0002" run out top to bottom. I believe the paperwork that came with the rails said to be within .00018". So technically it was slightly out of spec but I didn't think that would make it wear out in 7 months. I didn't see how the rails could be adjusted. Im more than open and willing to hear what i did wrong. Go easy on me...


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