HAAS DM/DT MILLS and Brother Speedio Power Requirements - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Most of the shops I've been in could probably run half the compressor they do if they just fixed their air leaks and used some of these Vortex tips on their air blow off guns instead of wide open! :

    Nozzles Products - Vortex Air
    From their website -- "ITW Vortec’s Nozzles and Jets amplify airflow volume up to 25 times more than the compressed air supplied."

    Really? Does that translate to more actual "oomph"? Sounds a little precious to me. Whenever I see "amplify" I assume there is a power supply involved, unless you are trading off one thing for another.

    Anybody have real-world experience with these?

    Regards.

    Mike

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  3. #42
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    I ordered one Mike, and will try to compare it a little when it comes. You can stop by and check it out.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    From their website -- "ITW Vortec’s Nozzles and Jets amplify airflow volume up to 25 times more than the compressed air supplied."

    Really? Does that translate to more actual "oomph"? Sounds a little precious to me. Whenever I see "amplify" I assume there is a power supply involved, unless you are trading off one thing for another.

    Anybody have real-world experience with these?

    Regards.

    Mike
    I've used these quite a bit. They are quieter and use less air than an 'open' blow off gun. What they mean by amplify is the nozzle moves a larger amount of surrounding air with the smaller amount of compressed air to give a bigger hit than you would normally get with the say 10CFM. A normal blow off gun is around 25 cfm. The air actually comes out in a ring at the largest part of the taper on the nozzle. sort of like a venturi effect. blah, blah blah. Whatever. It works! Quieter, less compressed air, good hit...they also come mounted on copper tubing that I use for air nozzles for dry machining. McMaster sells them under blow off nozzles I think. Some are threaded to go right on the end of a standard blow off gun.

  5. #44
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    I understand now. Thanks Gentlemen!

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    Just an FYI the Haas DM2 uses 18 amps of 480 and 25 amps of 208 three phase.

    They finally took the time to adjust this on the haas website after I pressed them on the issue. All the salesmen and even techs at IMTS 2018 thought it was 80 amps. However I simply walked behind the machine and the power plate read 25 amps.

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  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrickTactical View Post
    Just an FYI the Haas DM2 uses 18 amps of 480 and 25 amps of 208 three phase.

    They finally took the time to adjust this on the haas website after I pressed them on the issue. All the salesmen and even techs at IMTS 2018 thought it was 80 amps. However I simply walked behind the machine and the power plate read 25 amps.
    Please tell them congratulations on losing the sale on a couple of these machines just from me over a stupid typo.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by G00 Proto View Post
    Please tell them congratulations on losing the sale on a couple of these machines just from me over a stupid typo.
    Be thankful! You dodged a bullet!

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  11. #48
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    Be thankful! You dodged a bullet!

    Gota love a salesman ... Please pimp your product in the brothers forum.

  12. #49
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    The air threw me for a loop at first too. Unfortunately the 7.5hp (actual) compressor I had just purchased wasn't going to cut it since 2 weeks after receiving my first S700X1 and seeing the increased output I ordered a second. I bought a Kaeser SK15 for around $15K and it puts out 70+CFM. Runs both Brothers, both Haas, Citizen A20 and 5 hours a day of sandblasting. $15K is long since paid off on the increased output I get off the two Brothers.

    My fix for the air wastefully leaking when powered off or waiting for change over was to add a solenoid to the 1/8" line heading to the side of the head (27K spindle) which is air cooling for the bearings that is just on full-time (dumb... seriously dumb). I put a current sensing switch around one leg going to the coolant pump (amazon). 24v from the internal power supply goes through there to a big 4 contact relay. That relay switches 3 legs of 3 phase to the Royal mist collector and 24v to the solenoid. If coolant is on the bearings are chilling and the mist is clearing. 10 mins after cycle both turn off. Power down, both turn off. Changing parts over I hit the coolant switch to wash parts then turn off to lose the noise from the collector. This set up is perfect for us as I run coolant on all parts. If not I would wire and I/O out to a relay to turn on the air and add to the beginning of my post. We run lights out on both machines 5-6 days a week and they tend to finish around 3am-5am so the extra hours of saved air FREEZING the stopped spindle which we then need to warm back up anyways.... paid for the time to set it up by now I would imagine.

    I did have to add small relays for the alarm on the tower indicator lights I installed as they pull 500ma.

    As for the power I've noticed most of the folks that mentioned issues were using phase converters. Our install tech said 248v 'may cause issues'... 6,000 hours later between the two S700's (18 months) without one issue and 90% of the time we are at 25K rpm with TONS of rapids. Up to 1,500 retracts per part with cycle times of 3-30 minutes per part. Hundreds of parts on the table at a time. Long runs up to 30 hours per cycle with out issue. Ever. I actually forgot the techs name, but the one time I crashed he was here in 40 minutes and fixed our issue on the spot. I had issues on both Fanuc machines and had to install transformer which the Citizen is hooked up too, but the Brothers have no issue at all with constant 248V 3 phase. Neither does my TM2P Haas.

    My Haas techs are Brian and Chris. I know them well as every service has taken multiple days. One took multiple weeks... and the first $3K spent was wasted and had nothing to do with the issue.

    I'll be replacing the two Haas machines with another S700 early next year and then my shop will be 100% Blue and White machines (Brother and Citizen)

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  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    Be thankful! You dodged a bullet!

    Gota love a salesman ... Please pimp your product in the brothers forum.
    The deal is/was already done. Some of us are done with Haas stuff, and very happy with Brother machines. You made a rather big deal out of forcing Haas to take back a machine, IIRC. And now you are buying another one, right?

    This isn't the first time you've gotten negative like this regarding Brother stuff. Find a way to be happy with your Haas. No one is stepping on your personal toes.

    Let's all try to be positive, ok?

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  16. #51
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    I just do not think its right that a "SALESMAN" goes and posts, "Be thankfull You dodged a bullet" .

    It has nothing at all to do with Haas or Brothers . I`m just tired of frank and Andy jumping on the machinist board "EVERY" chance they get and trying to pimp there goods...

    This board is for machinists and shop owners ,,, if they want to pimp there chit they should pay for a ad and let us users click on it if we want there sales pitch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I just do not think its right that a "SALESMAN" goes and posts, "Be thankfull You dodged a bullet" .

    It has nothing at all to do with Haas or Brothers . I`m just tired of frank and Andy jumping on the machinist board "EVERY" chance they get and trying to pimp there goods...

    This board is for machinists and shop owners ,,, if they want to pimp there chit they should pay for a ad and let us users click on it if we want there sales pitch.
    You are very much exaggerating.
    EVERY CHANCE?
    They provide far more tech support on this forum than any other machine dealer/salesman.
    You seem to have a complex about this....... relax......
    (Is this personal because you didn't get the deal/price you wanted on a Brother machine?)

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  19. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I just do not think its right that a "SALESMAN" goes and posts, "Be thankfull You dodged a bullet" .

    It has nothing at all to do with Haas or Brothers . I`m just tired of frank and Andy jumping on the machinist board "EVERY" chance they get and trying to pimp there goods...

    This board is for machinists and shop owners ,,, if they want to pimp there chit they should pay for a ad and let us users click on it if we want there sales pitch.
    It seems that you're the only one that is concerned about it...

    I never considered their (Frank and Andy) posts as "sales pitch" or "pimping their goods". I see them more informative and constructive (even before I had a Brother machine).

    If you don't like to read their posts, it's very easy: Don't read them, or don't follow Brother related threads.

    It's 'brothering' you so much that Brother is gaining customers from Haas?

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  21. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    if they want to pimp there chit they should pay for a ad and let us users click on it if we want there sales pitch.
    JFC dude, if you're gonna paddle the douche canoe down shitpost stream, at least have the balls to type a real swear word.

  22. #55
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    Your clearly not getting what I`m saying ..

    I could care less about brothers machines and I would not say i`m a Haas fan by any stretch ..

    I just do not think its right for salesman to be trying to push there products on this forum .

    I`m not bashing brothers machines and think there a good machine for the right line of parts. I did drive close to 500 miles to look at one and the guy at the shop told me right in front of Andy that they had busted a pull stud and wasted a spindle before they found out they "could not run it like a 40 taper" then when I asked the guy if they were going to buy more he told me "NO" in that they needed machines with more tools. I came away from the meeting with Andy and the guy at the shop with two "HUGE" down sides for the parts I run .

    Brothers is a good fit for some parts but just not mine ,,, I want and need a 40 taper.

    "If" Doosan was better supported in my area I would have been vary happy with them. "IF" Okuma or hardinge had a better dealer in my area I would have looked at them before going back to Haas.

    Haas is more along the lines of the only choice in my area and After 5 years Running a vf4ss and 4 years running a vf2ss and the only problems being some burned out lights I really cant bitch about them ..

    The POS next gen I got right after they changed over was just that a POS... but in the end they picked the machine up and refunded me 100%

    A machine is only as good as the support it gets and Haas is the only dealer in my area that offers ok support. Most dealers up her have zero local support and use the cheapest outside repair guys they can find and your doing good to even get them.

    Its going to be fun to see what the new Tariff is going to do between the US and Japan ... It has raised hell with machine tools between the US and china. Haas sales to china are way down after china put a 25% tariff on them and it sounds like Japan is next.

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    and the guy at the shop told me right in front of Andy that they had busted a pull stud and wasted a spindle before they found out they "could not run it like a 40 taper".
    What's your point with this?

    It isn't a problem with the machine. It's a problem with the person behind it.

    Common sense is the less common of all the senses, and it isn't necessary a degree from Harvard to understand what to expect from a 30 taper.

    I'm pretty sure you can ruin also a 40 taper spindle if you treat it like a 50 taper, right?

    Again, regarding your concern about the 'salesperson pushing their product': I don't see any threads opened from Yamazen exclusively to sell Brother machines, with promotions, etc... They're just sharing their input and educating people.

    BTW, Brother or any good product doesn't need sales pitches. Because they sell by their selves.

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  25. #57
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    I don't know if anyone else has noticed but someone on here changes their tune very frequently and makes many exagerations and false statements. Everyone is entitled to their opinion including me. I for one am getting off the crazy train. I can choose not to read any post I want. I also choose not to insult others that have a different opinion. My post about being thankful was my opinion and I don't think it was insulting in any way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    What's your point with this?

    It isn't a problem with the machine. It's a problem with the person behind it.
    Well said. "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools" A good craftsman can 'make do' with just about any tools, but a good craftsman with great tools is amazing.

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    Be thankful! You dodged a bullet!

    Clearly I am wrong and its great that a salesman can just go out and say what every they want on the Forum about some other brand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post

    I`m not bashing brothers machines and think there a good machine for the right line of parts. I did drive close to 500 miles to look at one and the guy at the shop told me right in front of Andy that they had busted a pull stud and wasted a spindle before they found out they "could not run it like a 40 taper" then when I asked the guy if they were going to buy more he told me "NO" in that they needed machines with more tools. I came away from the meeting with Andy and the guy at the shop with two "HUGE" down sides for the parts I run .




    Its going to be fun to see what the new Tariff is going to do between the US and Japan ... It has raised hell with machine tools between the US and china. Haas sales to china are way down after china put a 25% tariff on them and it sounds like Japan is next.

    So, if you are going to comment on a topic, please make sure you are not being told false information.

    Last part first. Haas faced and continues to face 25% +/- tariffs for their machines for over 20 years that were intended for China. I know this because Haas upper management shared that information with me, 20 years ago. They built a knock up factory there just for that reason. China has for decades considered low cost machines a non starter for import unless they had a special purpose. I have personally dealt with this for over 20 years. I have worked with deals where the machines ended up in China. On the last occasion, I had 2 machines held for weeks until the final approval was delivered to install the machines without the tariffs.

    On the first one, I would bet you about if that customer will add more Brother machines but it would be unfair, as I know a lot more about their needs than you do.

    Good luck on the new Haas. I hope it is a great machine for you.

    PS: I was not very fond of BROTHERFRANKS post. A know it was meant with humor but it came across to you as shitty. I get that. I apologize for that.


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