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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    A Mini Mill with those options is over $50k, and I just don't see the value proposition. You can get vastly more capable machines from a variety of builders for that (or less) money.

    If you have a high paying job and don't mind putting that into a hobby machine to play with, then go for it. But if this is the beginning of a shop I think you could get a much better and more capable machine for the money, and barely any bigger.

    To clarify- I'm not saying the Mini Mill is a hobby machine itself, I'm referring to whether or not this is a hobby for the OP.
    To answer your question this is not for hobby purposes. I plan on using this machine to make and sell automotive parts. I do check on ebay time to time and there are some mini mills listed but they are early 2000 model and I prefer to get a newer machine if possible to avoid any serious maintenance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade212 View Post
    Sorry I only read the initial post.. I have 2 haas tm mills, a 1p and a 3p both 2007 models. First off I have beat the living snot out of both. I've made hundreds of thousands between the 2 machines which I picked up for a combined total of 40k. When I was 24 just starting to dip my tip in machining these guys were perfect. I've slammed the spindles down full rapid and they don't seem to have the power to do anything other than break the tool/part but not hurt the machines themselves. Put 30 yards of 4140 chips through the tm1p in the last 6 months. Would I ever buy another one? Absolutely not.....

    - cheap 20 gallon piston compressor is all you need
    -chip auger is useless
    -if you get a 10k spindle don't run anything of any duration at high rpm. Ive cooked cartridges this way.
    - these tm mills don't move fast enough to waste money on hsm feature. Get a CAM with a good filter for high speed paths and your golden.
    -probes are nice but if your buying a tool mill your not doing anything that a 10$ edgefinder can't handle. That being said I hold .0005 all day.
    -get a bigger coolant tank

    Moral of the story is find a bigger garage and get a fadal ��
    Thanks for your input! I'm thinking of removing the chip auger based on peoples experience but still on the fence for the WIPS based on the review and functions of it.
    Regarding the air compressor did you have an air dryer for it? I read that its highly recommended as it will help prevent rust from developing on the spindle? If this is the case does that mean it be a daily maintenance to clean the spindle and tool holder?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidp8282 View Post
    To answer your question this is not for hobby purposes. I plan on using this machine to make and sell automotive parts. I do check on ebay time to time and there are some mini mills listed but they are early 2000 model and I prefer to get a newer machine if possible to avoid any serious maintenance.
    I'm with you on not buying an old Mini Mill, those things hold resale value like a Toyota for whatever reason. Which would be in your favor if you bought one new and then wanted to upgrade later.

    That said, I'm still not seeing how it's the best machine to buy. This isn't knocking Haas either, I suspect a VF-2 would have better ROI on just about anything you want to make.

    Can you give us some broad outlines of the parts? Materials and size, what size bits you anticipate using?

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    What is the reservation about looking at other brands?

    Is it Haas financing? That's the only reason I could see anyone going Haas today. They don't make it on support, price, speed, quality, nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    What is the reservation about looking at other brands?

    Is it Haas financing? That's the only reason I could see anyone going Haas today. They don't make it on support, price, speed, quality, nothing.
    Other brands don't list pricing and options online. That's a serious failure IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    What is the reservation about looking at other brands?

    Is it Haas financing? That's the only reason I could see anyone going Haas today. They don't make it on support, price, speed, quality, nothing.
    In your opinion...you forgot to add that

    Cause I mean, every haas is a turd that gets horrible service and does a horrible job...get real bud

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    In your opinion...you forgot to add that

    Cause I mean, every haas is a turd that gets horrible service and does a horrible job...get real bud
    I see what you did there! You took the opinion thing, the thing that I just did, and you turned it around, like the opinion that you have is better than the opinion that I have. You tricky guy!

    They aren't a pile of complete shit. I think people all know that. What's not always apparent to these freshly jumping into machining folks is that Haas dollars sure don't go as far as they used to, the value is not there and they can do better by shopping around.

    What is the point of defending Haas in a discussion like this? I mean seriously, if Haas' sales start hurting some because people suddenly wise up to the fact they're getting screwed by Haas don't you think Haas would work a bit harder to win those customers back? Saying that Haas is great because it gets the job done doesn't address the real value of buying one at all. Not one bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    What is the point of defending Haas in a discussion like this?
    What's the point of attacking Haas in a thread like this?

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    Haas is just doing what any successful manufacturer should do: after achieving recognition in the market, raise prices as high as the market allows.

    You guys need to pick on other American companies such as Apple. Their I-phones have astronomical market acceptance, thatís how they can take a $30 Chinese-built phone and sell it for $1,000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Haas is just doing what any successful manufacturer should do: after achieving recognition in the market, raise prices as high as the market allows.

    You guys need to pick on other American companies such as Apple. Their I-phones have astronomical market acceptance, that’s how they can take a $30 Chinese-built phone and sell it for $1,000.
    Remember when phones were free every 2 years lol

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    I think the argument could be made in the VF2 market that there is similar options for similar money that some may feel is a better buy. Honestly though what other MTB is going to put a small machine in your garage for $30k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    I'm with you on not buying an old Mini Mill, those things hold resale value like a Toyota for whatever reason. Which would be in your favor if you bought one new and then wanted to upgrade later.

    That said, I'm still not seeing how it's the best machine to buy. This isn't knocking Haas either, I suspect a VF-2 would have better ROI on just about anything you want to make.

    Can you give us some broad outlines of the parts? Materials and size, what size bits you anticipate using?
    Haha yeah they sure do hold their values like a Toyota! The parts I currently want to make are clamps, adapters, brackets. I won't be fixed on just making car parts as I do want to try making other things like golf putters, tools, etc.

    If I had the space and 3 phase power I would definitely go for the VF2 which is why I'm looking into the TM models since it will be going in my garage. Initially I was looking at Tormachs but after reading the reviews and experiences it led me to looking into the Haas TMs. I'm open to all suggestions as I would like to save money if possible /

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    What is the reservation about looking at other brands?

    Is it Haas financing? That's the only reason I could see anyone going Haas today. They don't make it on support, price, speed, quality, nothing.
    I started to learn on a Haas Mini Mill and vf2 so I'm more familiar and comfortable with their interface. I considered getting a Tormach to save money but led me to wanting a Haas machine based on the reviews and experiences that I've been reading on. Regardless I'm still open to other options which is why I'm here

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    Well Iíll say as I always say. Maybe take a look at doosans options. They have some pretty low budget stripped down machines.

    Haas is very good at giving you a low introductory price and then nickel and diming you up past the higher quality brands.
    I havenít looked in the smaller mill category but for the same options on a vf3 size doosan and haas are competitive and mazaks new ez line comes in pretty close aswell.


    Unless you have a product you are already sell that will pay for the machine in a year I donít recommend buying new. But also donít buy a used haas they have way too much resale value considering the machines are usually expandable and worn out after a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidp8282 View Post
    Haha yeah they sure do hold their values like a Toyota! The parts I currently want to make are clamps, adapters, brackets. I won't be fixed on just making car parts as I do want to try making other things like golf putters, tools, etc.

    If I had the space and 3 phase power I would definitely go for the VF2 which is why I'm looking into the TM models since it will be going in my garage. Initially I was looking at Tormachs but after reading the reviews and experiences it led me to looking into the Haas TMs. I'm open to all suggestions as I would like to save money if possible /
    Don't let the 3 phase stop you. An RPC or Phase Perfect isn't that expensive or troublesome all things considered, and opens up a whole nother world of possible machines. I don't know what your space is, but there's a lot of machines packed into a lot of garages.

    I had a TM-1 for the same reasons at one point, and it's a step I could have skipped and saved a bunch of time.

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    FWIW, we just traded in a 5 year old vf4 (still working fine) and got 50% of new value towards a new vf4ss.

    Don't skip the probe. May seem like you don't *need* it, but with tool break checks, picking up work offsets mostly automatic right out of the box, and if you get into macros you can do alot of other things with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Well I’ll say as I always say. Maybe take a look at doosans options. They have some pretty low budget stripped down machines.

    Haas is very good at giving you a low introductory price and then nickel and diming you up past the higher quality brands.
    I haven’t looked in the smaller mill category but for the same options on a vf3 size doosan and haas are competitive and mazaks new ez line comes in pretty close aswell.


    Unless you have a product you are already sell that will pay for the machine in a year I don’t recommend buying new. But also don’t buy a used haas they have way too much resale value considering the machines are usually expandable and worn out after a few years.
    The only thing I would add on a new VFss is probing, $6300. Not sure what they are "nickle and diming" you for, unless you want to get alot of extras, but IMO as is + probing is plenty to get making parts.

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    My Milltronics Partner 1 works and fits great in my garage, makes me a lot of money, cost me a tenth of the machines everyone else is talking about, holds good tolerances, and runs on single phase. It's a 25x16 VMC with a 7.5 hp spindle, which is enough for what I do. I've run everything from aluminum to 17-4. It's been reliable over all, but has had little fixes and maintenance required here and there but nothing major in my book, especially for a 25 year old machine. That being said, if you're not willing or able to do basic maintenance, troubleshooting, and repair it wouldn't be a good fit. Milltronics support is good and they even support machines as old as mine. When I get to the point of looking for another machine, a newer Milltronics will definitely be a consideration. Just my .02

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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    My CM-1 showed up yesterday. My electrician is scheduled for Wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    My CM-1 showed up yesterday. My electrician is scheduled for Wednesday.
    Where's the new machine thread? I know you needed a small mill with a high RPM, but I'd like to hear what all led to that particular machine.


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