Haas vs. Doosan lathes
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    Default Haas vs. Doosan lathes

    Hey,

    I know this kind of thread usually gets out of control but I thought I'd ask anyway. We are looking at either a Haas ST20Y or a Doosan Lynx 2100LSYB. We already have a UMC750 and also another lathe (YCM) that runs a Fanuc controller so we're familiar with both.

    The lathe will basically be used exclusively for making titanium bolts from M4 up to M10, we will be milling a torx head into them. We are the rolling threads, the prerolled diameter is the most critical turning tolerance on the parts at +/- 0.01mm. Quantities for some of the sizes are around 500.

    The quotes have come back reasonably close (within about $5k NZ), one thing the Doosan has going for it is 10k live tooling option which I'm just waiting for a price on the moment.

    The support we've had for the UMC has been excellent so far, we haven't really had any dealings with the Doosan agent yet.

    Is there any reason not to go for the ST-20?

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    If it's a choice and you can afford both....go doosan.

    The Haas lathes are whimpy and the live tools suck at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    If it's a choice and you can afford both....go doosan.

    The Haas lathes are whimpy and the live tools suck at best.
    We're removing like 3 or 4mm of material off most parts in a couple of passes, there's no crazy hogging of steel so being wimpy isn't a huge concern. What "sucks" about the live tooling? The Haas is BMT65 which is the same as our YCM where the Doosan is BMT45 so the holders we have won't fit it.

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    Well that changes things..


    The Haas tooling fits what you have so I'd go with that... But the Haas vs doosan in live tooling....doosan will win. Haas just doesn't have the balls.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Doosan

    rigidity is king

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    I had a Doosan 2200 LSYC and I think the machine its self was good ,, but the dealer I got it from was crap ,, I had them remove it and went to a Has ST15 in that I could get by with a two axis lathe ,, but I well say if the dealer did there job I would have been more happy with the 220LSYC lathe .

    I would ask around at your local shops how the dealer in your are is ...

    FYI,, The ST15 is a great little machine and is doing everything I have asked of it ,, but being a 2 axis I end up flipping most parts and that side of it gets old fast.

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    Maybe also compare with the nakamura AS-200 with sub spindle.

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    Naks are solid machines, especially if you want live tooling andd subspindle.

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    I've been using Doosan for 10+ years and have had very few complaints. I do a lot of preventive maintenance (fluids and filters changed on schedule) and keep them clean. Haas is not a bad machine (we have 1 also) , but not on an even par with Doosan IMHO.
    Progressive Tool @ MFG. INC. Greensboro, NC

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    If you're going to be milling hexalobes, the live tools don't matter, if you don't invest in an NSK or similar high speed spindle, and a way to mount it in your turret, you're going to spend 10 minutes where you should be spending 2. Assuming we're talking like T10 and T15 size hexalobes, you're going to be using .5mm and .6mm endmills... I googled the live tool speed for the Haas... Google says 3K max RPM... You should be closer to 40K if you want to be productive.

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    Watch this here, starting around 12 min to the end, checking the torx with the load sensing is kinda cool, and 3X speeder for milling.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DJZ View Post
    either a Haas ST20Y or a Doosan Lynx 2100LSYB.
    Does the Doosan in this comparison have long bed, sub spindle and big bore over the Haas?

    I dont think Haas subspindles do polar, I wouldnt be surprised if they only position.

    Haas as of earlier this year did not sell a double ended axial driven tool. Not that you couldnt buy one elsewhere. I was asked to get competing quotes earlier this year including Haas and that was the case then. I couldnt get a "same same" quote because they didnt offer them.

    On the torx thing, Have you heard of this newfangled thing called rotary broaching?


    YouTube

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    Yeah, Milling Hexalobes is gay. Literally changes everything about the decision. I use teeny tiny Omni/Hardinge machines with a rotary broach, and make money. No Milling, Face, Drill, Broach. Maybe 20 seconds.

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    The guy likes a nice chamfer on his hexalobes, not going to get that with a rotary broach unless you figure out a way to time it.

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    I sympathize with an edge break. But putting a Machined Chamfer on T-10 is ridiculous. Not saying I won't do it, but it's not very profitable. IMO.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I sympathize with an edge break. But putting a Machined Chamfer on T-10 is ridiculous. Not saying I won't do it, but it's not very profitable. IMO.
    He sells $800+ knives, with a few thousand deep wait list of people lined up to buy literally everything he can make.

    But the economics of luxury goods (which is what the knife world at this level is - basically men's jewelry) are weird. People who pay that kind of money for a product like that demand microscopic perfection. It totally makes sense for him to mill those T-10s (and he just bought a Tornos to bang them out in like 75 seconds).

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    Thanks for the replies.

    Rotary broaching in titanium isn't sustainable in a production situation, we broach hexes at the moment and are moving to torx because we can mill them, a 6mm hex broach life span is in the 10s of holes and we are making a lot of bolts, the torx broaches last even less time.

    I live in a relatively small country (New Zealand), as far as I can see there isn't an agent for Nakamura here. The Doosan and Haas agents have techs in the city closest to us, they are the only two machine suppliers that do as far as I know.

    Haas have a 6k rpm option for the ST-20Y, Doosan have a 10k option for theirs. We have looked at coolant driven speeders but because of the range of sizes we are doing one speeder head is either the right speed or too fast. A 2:1 ratio live tooling holder will get us close to where we need to be for 80% of the bolts. We are looking at other options as well but they need to have a range rather than a fixed speed, so anything off the live tooling will be better.

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    Look at the NSK iSpeed3 units. Not sure how wire management would work with a rotating turret, but I bet if you called them up, they could recommend something to suit your application. Programmable from 0 to 80K RPM. Not a lot of torque, but they let me mill T10 and T15s all day, every day in Ti and Stainless.

    Also, have you tried any of the Horn hex/hexalobe broaching tools? We call them Skive broaches, basically you pick out each corner of the hex, a thou or two at a time, rapidly. The point is oriented along the X axis of your machine, so you just step out in X to adjust the size of the finished hex or hexalobe. I've used them with great success in parts that have a through hole, they're not recommended for blind holes, but since this is your own product, you could put a small undercut at the base of your pre drill to break chips. They're now available from NTK as well.

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    Something isn't making sense here. A rotary broach isn't pushing material, it's cutting, chipping, or Shaping if you want to call it that. I've done 10's of Thousands of hardware heads, in 17-4, 304, A2 hard, A2 annealed, D2, 316, Hastelloy, all kinds of stuff. Ti isn't difficult to Machine. Or Shape. But I'm sure he knows better than me.

    R

    PS, are we making knives out of Titanium now??

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Something isn't making sense here. A rotary broach isn't pushing material, it's cutting, chipping, or Shaping if you want to call it that. I've done 10's of Thousands of hardware heads, in 17-4, 304, A2 hard, A2 annealed, D2, 316, Hastelloy, all kinds of stuff. Ti isn't difficult to Machine. Or Shape. But I'm sure he knows better than me.

    R

    PS, are we making knives out of Titanium now??
    Maybe titanium is harder once it's across the pond.

    Kind of like backwards flushing toilets and whatnot

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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