Hardinge Conquest V 1000 (experiences) and Conquest H-51 and Elmira group? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    The OSP control will probably be more user friendly, and it also runs Windows in the background - which some people get all fussy anti-windows about, but it really opens up a lot of other benefits to using the machine than one would think, until they've used those features.

    But, I'd bet the Mits comes with more "options" installed as standard. The OSP will be pretty well-featured, but they still charge for some options. The features that you do get with the OSP will probably be more refined and user-friendly.

    But, there's basically a $40,000 disparity between the two machines, feature-for-feature. I'm a pretty shamless Okuma fan, but $40,000 between two nice Mills, could instead buy a Sub-Spindle, or Y-Axis on the lathe...

    Maybe I missed it, but what's your budget for the whole package? And the biggest requirement is high-precision parts tolerance on the lathe, correct?

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    Ask your mori dealer if they have a special on the duravertical 5100. I just got an email from our dealer with these on special with a chip conveyor, chip blaster 1000 psi tsc, and 4th axis ddr drive and wiring for 85k. There were a few more options that i dont remember off hand. This is a smokin' deal on a real nice machine that probably won't last long.

    https://us.dmgmori.com/blob/305756/3...l-pdf-data.pdf

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    The OSP control will probably be more user friendly, and it also runs Windows in the background - which some people get all fussy anti-windows about, but it really opens up a lot of other benefits to using the machine than one would think, until they've used those features.

    But, I'd bet the Mits comes with more "options" installed as standard. The OSP will be pretty well-featured, but they still charge for some options. The features that you do get with the OSP will probably be more refined and user-friendly.

    But, there's basically a $40,000 disparity between the two machines, feature-for-feature. I'm a pretty shamless Okuma fan, but $40,000 between two nice Mills, could instead buy a Sub-Spindle, or Y-Axis on the lathe...

    Maybe I missed it, but what's your budget for the whole package? And the biggest requirement is high-precision parts tolerance on the lathe, correct?

    Jshley73 writes "And the biggest requirement is high-precision parts tolerance on the lathe, correct" Yup indeed/definitely!

    Budget... this is how I explained it to the DMG mori guy (good guy/nice guy)...

    $300K :-)

    $350K :-|

    $400K :-/ (risky , somewhat more worrying):-(

    Hardinge H-51 list price two axis not too many features $158K (high precision "HP") with "super precision" $170K so my strategy is/was to become the "Conquest" Poster boy and get a really good combined deal/factory deal with V1000 + 4th axis + H-51 (HP or SP) and some helpful advice and fixturing? Maybe...?


    The M or Y capability for Hardinge H-51 is not so relevant to me as the design of the H-51 does not have direct drive but belt drives so the C axis precision is +/- 30 arc minutes... i.e. to one degree so can't do so much useful positional mill work on axis or Y for my own applications. I understand with an integrated spindle design controlling heat may be an issue for "Super Precision"... Hence Belts?

    Price wise the only DMG "temptation" would be NLX 2500/1250 MC configured and steady rest but probably cannot achieve the circularity/roundness tolerances for short work but like it's long work capability. NLX2500/500 pretty good/really good tolerances; NLX 2500/700 starting to edge out of the tolerances we need. So probably I am going to have to stick with two axis, lathe but 2nd spindle would be cool or a fancier steady rest, that would be nice but not mission critical.

    The reality is if I can meet my application/project objectives and save $100K, then I can certainly spend the $100k on other very useful systems to assist other project goals.


    Exactly as you are saying it's a difference of $40K but similarly a MAZAK VCN 530C (base price would be $125K) $160+K with 4th axis and the necessary extras... Similarly Hurco VMX 42i $112K base price but things add up a bit with Hurco so +$35K for the "extra" necessaries basically $150K... So the Okuma Genos M560V is excellent value for what it is... No question a similarly constructed Makino i.e. an F3 or F5 is about $179K...

    Cheers,

    Eric
    Last edited by cameraman; 11-19-2015 at 08:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    Ask your mori dealer if they have a special on the duravertical 5100. I just got an email from our dealer with these on special with a chip conveyor, chip blaster 1000 psi tsc, and 4th axis ddr drive and wiring for 85k. There were a few more options that i dont remember off hand. This is a smokin' deal on a real nice machine that probably won't last long.

    https://us.dmgmori.com/blob/305756/3...l-pdf-data.pdf

    That's an awesome price (ACTUALLY EDIT: THAT'S AN AMAZING PRICE!!!) for a really super machine... So far the local DMG sales guy is very loyal to the original Mori Seiki products but also has to tow the line with the new merged designs and CELOS control etc... I wish I could get a similar price for an (old school) NL2500|1250 lathe as your NV Dura ... but so far prices presented for the newer NLX2500 MC|1250 and the older NL2500|1250 regular tailstock/two axis are virtually the same. I think this price "Strategy" is designed to try and get folks to adopt the new "Merged" DMG Mori designs over the traditional Mori Seiki offerings.

    That's a very good suggestion you make though. I have all the specs and so on... Thanks for the link I have to say the original Mapps IV control looks really good/the business...

    Cheers

    Eric



    Addendum:


    So list price for what your local DMG Mori people are able to swing for the Dura vertical you describe would be:

    DuraVertical 5100_F0iMD ... (Base Price) $124K, DDRT 4th axis (great piece of kit) $22K not including interface options... Typically useful Chip conveyor/chip removal $13k , TSC $8k (excluding I/F), (maybe other options such as coolant chiller or related packages that you got +$20k... So list price for all that would be $180K , so you got or could get all that for $85K??? That's "smok'n" to the point of being atomic ... ; [I must be doing something wrong? I think it's the British accent... Or cameras or something... ;-) ? I think my local DMG guy stands pretty resolute to fish for as much as he thinks he can get; this is going to turn into trench warfare/deadlock]. But he has bigger fish to fry anyway.
    Last edited by cameraman; 11-19-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  7. #25
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    The actual specification for the C axis accuracy on the H Series machine is +/-5.4 arc seconds on a Fanuc control (utilizes a FANUC Bz sensor)and +/-6.0 arc seconds for the Mits control (utilizes a Heidenhain sensor). The machine is available with either control. The +/-30 minutes referenced above is for what we term B orient, this is one degree spindle orient and is the spec only, in reality it is much better than that. Basically when using the C Axis for non contouring you may position to any increment of .001° and the spindle is held in position via the motor, you may program the spindle brake to clamp for aggressive cutting if required, B orient on the other hand is only good for 1° degree increments and the brake clamps automatically. I hope this helps to clear this up. If you have any other questions on the Hardinge equipment feel free to post or pm me.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    The actual specification for the C axis accuracy on the H Series machine is +/-5.4 arc seconds on a Fanuc control (utilizes a FANUC Bz sensor)and +/-6.0 arc seconds for the Mits control (utilizes a Heidenhain sensor). The machine is available with either control. The +/-30 minutes referenced above is for what we term B orient, this is one degree spindle orient and is the spec only, in reality it is much better than that. Basically when using the C Axis for non contouring you may position to any increment of .001° and the spindle is held in position via the motor, you may program the spindle brake to clamp for aggressive cutting if required, B orient on the other hand is only good for 1° degree increments and the brake clamps automatically. I hope this helps to clear this up. If you have any other questions on the Hardinge equipment feel free to post or pm me.

    Tom
    Thanks for chiming in on that.

    The product literature makes what you set out pretty clear, so for dynamic contouring the resolution of the control and the spindle's C axis type movements are exactly as you describe... In my case I am looking for absolute positional C axis control i.e. rotate the work piece to a given position and then perform on axis milling and also perform Y axis milling, then rotate to a second position and then perform similar tasks, rotate to a third position etc etc... So the index capability that is stated for the C axis is +/- 30 arc minutes ( at least in the literature) or what you would call "B orient". In my case I do have to make fiendishly accurate longitudinal milling of the cylindrical surfaces and then rotate 30 degrees/break /clamp/index and mill and then rotate 30 degrees and mill and so on... That's why I was thinking that those processes and set ups could be performed better on a 4th axis on a mill after turning (for example on the Conquest V1000 :- ) ). I have to make new types of lens focusing mechanisms that translate longitudinally maintaining very high degrees of repeatability (for 3d imaging). In some ways that was the appeal of the Hardinge 4th axis (on mill) and compatible work holding between lathe and 4th axis. It's debatable whether I can pull off what I need to do even with a mill's 4th axis, so for example a very manual set up using mandrels and V blocks etc. special clamping and optical alignment equipment/special jigs may actually be required. With the H-51 everything else is beautifully engineered especially with the turret and special dynamic tooling and the machine's alignment and construction that if there was true static C axis positional accuracy down to +/- 8 arc seconds then that would truly make the H-51 (for me "a dream machine")... For me it's not a tragedy that positional C axis (or B Orientation as you call it) is not super accurate (to within 1 degree due to the use of belts), as I can perform the same on the mill and actually save a lot of $$$$$ [I.e. save about $100K in respect of an H-51 MSY (HP) ] as I don't need to be monumentally productive for our most precise elements of the precision camera systems we need to produce. Old school hands on approach may be more the ticket in this case. I suspect there are some tricks or techniques to attain higher physical positional accuracy on the C axis spindle (of the H-51) but probably not realistically going to be of the order of a good 4th axis on a mill or really careful manual style setup/custom jig. If the H-51 had a digital direct drive on the spindle then that would make the H-51 THE turning center IMO.

    I don't think I have misread or misunderstood the capabilities of the H-51 but I am certainly very open minded/all ears to any suggestions or recommendations for better "technique" or different approaches to the problem (assuming I have not grossly misunderstood things) :-)

    Much appreciated ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post

    I don't think I have misread or misunderstood the capabilities of the H-51 but I am certainly very open minded/all ears to any suggestions or recommendations for better "technique" or different approaches to the problem (assuming I have not grossly misunderstood things) :-)

    Much appreciated ...

    Boy - I think you botched it up terribly IMO!

    You better go back and read Tom's post a cpl more times ... slowly...

    Unless you have a 4th axis table with a rotary (linear?) motor on your mill - you will never see the accuracy that you will get on the lathes C axis. Anything with a worm has lash. There is no lash on the lathe.

    Now Hardinge does make 4th's w/o worms, but I doubt your going to fetch that at a budgetary price.

    You are mixing C and B comments. While both are positioning of the spindle, B is a gross index, and C is minute location.
    You are going to hafta git a long ways from C/L (big diameter) to even use the accuracy offered as is.

    FWIW - I never use B.


    B in this case not to be cornfused with a "B axis" lathe which spins the turret.


    if there was true static C axis positional accuracy down to +/- 8 arc seconds then that would truly make the H-51 (for me "a dream machine")...
    5.4 in the case of the Fanuc. 2/3 of your target. Apparently pretty dreamy...


    the design of the H-51 does not have direct drive but belt drives so the C axis precision is +/- 30 arc minutes...
    Hardinge has used C axis encoders inside the spindle housing for decades. They are NOT reading off the motor encoder in C axis mode. (M23) Again - 5.4 arc SECONDS.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 11-19-2015 at 11:24 AM. Reason: I think I'm done editing now .... maybe...

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    You may use the C Axis as a positional axis and depending upon the cutting load may or may not need to clamp the spindle. The C axis encoder is directly mounted on the end of the spindle for accuracy and does not use the encoder on the motor, this eliminates positional deviation when using the C axis. For roughing cuts you may need to clamp the spindle in C axis mode for straight milling operations (non interpolated with C and X or C and Z) and then unclamp, reposition and take a light finish cut with minimal load to get the best possible accuracy. Yes the H Series machine is belt driven (this was done due to cost) however the T Series machines(which are even more accurate machine than the H Series) is a wraparound spindle. The T Series also utilizes a Cz Fanuc sensor for C axis feedback, which the specification on that is +/-3.0 arc seconds. The big difference between the Bz and Cz sensors are the number of pulse counts, Bz = 360,000 and Cz = 3,600,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Boy - I think you botched it up terribly IMO!

    You better go back and read Tom's post a cpl more times ... slowly...

    Unless you have a 4th axis table with a rotary (linear?) motor on your mill - you will never see the accuracy that you will get on the lathes C axis. Anything with a worm has lash. There is no lash on the lathe.

    Now Hardinge does make 4th's w/o worms, but I doubt your going to fetch that at a budgetary price.

    You are mixing C and B comments. While both are positioning of the spindle, B is a gross index, and C is minute location.
    You are going to hafta git a long ways from C/L (big diameter) to even use the accuracy offered as is.

    FWIW - I never use B.


    B in this case not to be cornfused with a "B axis" lathe which spins the turret.




    5.4 in the case of the Fanuc. 2/3 of your target. Apparently pretty dreamy...




    Hardinge has used C axis encoders inside the spindle housing for decades. They are NOT reading off the motor encoder in C axis mode. (M23)


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    Dude I wish you were right! I really do...

    I have all the literature .. So for example a direct drive or integrated spindle/headstock like on a MAZAK yes indexing capability of the order of 8 arc seconds... But for a lathe that has two and half foot long belts connected to the spindle drive motor you cannot position the spindle axis to rotational positions of the order of 10 arc seconds ... no way no how... BUT the resolution of dynamic control once set in motion can indeed be of the incriments of 0.001 degrees... So If I needed to mill on face a square or box from 4 indexed positions the sides would only be parallel to within one degree maybe... However if I was doing contoured shapes (which I am not) the dynamic contouring control could be quite good/ quite high. In contrast the indexing capability of something like an Okuma Multus B200 would be of the order of +/- 5 arc seconds true positional accuracy... Similarly with a direct drive 4th axis unit such as Mori Seiki DDRT (200) positional accuracies of the order of 5 arc seconds can be achieved (no back lash)....

    Just because a control and encoder can read and send signal of the resolution ( and associated bandwidth) of 5 arc seconds does not necessarily mean that drive motor and spindle are actually capable of being positioned (statically) to five arc seconds positional (absolute) accuracy. The Hardinge literature does actually state "C" axis positioning to 1 degree (+/- 30 arc minutes)... So C axis positioning on a Mazak QTUMSYor for example on an NLX 2500 MC|1250 is indeed of the order of better than 10 arc seconds but not on a machine that has 2 1/2 foot long belts (no matter how tight they are) connected to the digital drive motor as in the case of a venerable H-51... ;-)

    It's not my intention to highlight a design trade off or quirk about the H-51 quite the reverse as I really have infinite respect for Hardinge ... and the Conquest V1000 and regular two axis H-51 could be really VERY good for what I need to do... Yup the T-series are fantastic truly word class but start at $250K+ for two axis capability and up to $350K for something like a T-65 with a lot of options. So a Conquest H-51 tweaked to "High precision" rather than "Super precision" (for tuning/two axis ) starting base/list price of $158K might be a good proposition and good fit. [Same tweaked to "Super precision" and necessary thermal control to make it so about $200K].

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    Well, FWIW - Tom is an engineer from Hardinge if you didn't know.

    I'm wondering if they messed up the brochure?
    +/- 30 arc minutes? As in a 1/2 of a degree?
    I think not. Not in C. Not with the encoder on the spindle.

    I bet the cheapest KIA has (much) better than you are talking about.
    Even a whore out worm drive won't hardly get that bad!



    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 11-19-2015 at 01:02 PM. Reason: not seconds

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    I am seeing a whole bunch of discussions here about work that is in the tighter than tight range. I would spend more time worrying about the other factors involved in making critical tolerance parts like and most importantly temp control from under the floor to the ceiling than some of the other issues mentioned here. If a mechanical C axis is not good enough are the people who will be making and checking the parts good enough?

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    Are you just reading brochures?

    Doo you really grasp the minuteness of the numbers that you are throwing around here?

    Back on page 1 you said that you were working up to 4" diameter.
    Above you mention that an M brand can keep it under 10 seconds.

    Just to provide you with the equazsion here:

    2" rad x 10s/sine

    2 x (10/3600 - sine)

    2 x (.0028 sine)

    2 x .0000485 = .0001"

    So - at 4" diameter, your 10 seconds is one tenth of a thousandths of an inch on location.


    I don't see the belt issue at all. I think you've been talking to too many "Sales Engineers" that are trying to baffle with BS.
    (and likely don't understand the numbers themselves either.)


    I have Hardinge lathes and I know that the belt thing that you speak of is absolutely BS.



    Someone correct my math if it's wrong.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    @OX... Dude I know mechatronic control systems particularly for angular high precision systems. No sales BS... :-) Honestly. I think you are not getting the difference between measured C position accuracy versus control resolution... You can have all resolution you want on the control and the encoder but if you do not have the physical means to effect absolute measured positioning you don't have it hence stated +/- 30 arc minutes or slightly better with a work around... That's also completely different from dynamic control resolution... (for example for contouring).


    I know Tom is an engineer and all round good bloke etc. from Hardinge...

    Like you I thought it was a misprint too...
    And looked into that... Not to put too finer point on this, that particular "oddity" did cause a kind of temporary falling out with my local Hartwig sales guy... He is a very good guy also, but I was super ready to pull the trigger on a "Blinged out" Y axis capable H-51 when it took me a few weeks to get to the bottom of things as to how that C axis IS for absolute position. We are on good terms now but that could have been a very expensive mistake or blunder if I was hoping for 10 arc second positional accuracy or better. You make a mistake like that to the tune of $250K and you are in real trouble! :-)

    My take on that is that the spindle on the H-51 when set as "Super precision" is capable of realistic 0.25 to 0.5 micron circularity and cylnidricity/part accuracy of 5 micron or less and surface finishes of Ra 0.2 micron or better... But I believe that capability comes from leaving the headstock and spindle very much alone and at a distance with belts etc... I.e. Don't have an integrated drive motor spindle or head stock. Some of the other manufacturers do claim 0.3 or 0.5 micron circularity but when you look at their test sheets such capability is not in evidence ( and when pressed further they are not able to "prove it"), so in my opinion Hardinge is the real deal on that and their machines (under the right conditions and care) can deliver quite reliably such very high turning precisions and accuracies, and part accuracies of the order of 5 micron... So for my application that capability and NOT having to go to grinding is meaningful and useful. The DMG Mori 2500|500c seems that it can deliver test values for roundness, part accuracies and so on that are about half as good or not quite as compared to Hardinge. Versions of DMG 2500|700 excellent capability but their precision for turning is in slightly different class because of an integrated motor/headstock spindle design (more useful for multi axis work). So the things that is stand out for me with the Conquest H-51 is the 25" work piece length capability but for shorter work has reliable sub micron "roundness"... The T series "Hard turning" is of terrific interest to me would love to get into that but I really don't have the funding at this exact minute for that. I only need the turning precision to cut short large bore tapers... And actually overall part accuracy is not such an issue due to the designs I am implementing other than accuracy of the angle of taper and repeatability of "mated" (removable components). Basically everything about these cameras are calibrated but just need really accurate conic "mating" surfaces that repeat well for XY position but Z is dynamically calibrated.


    Overall it's almost embarrassing right now how slowly and carefully right now I can go about producing these things, so breaking the work between simple two axis lathe and 4th axis mill work is fine, in terms of QC and budget (at the moment). BTW the Hardinge 4th axis rotary solutions are quite affordable about $20K...

    One way or another I/we will figure this out and get going with this particular project...

    Cheers,

    Eric,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Are you just reading brochures?

    Doo you really grasp the minuteness of the numbers that you are throwing around here?

    Back on page 1 you said that you were working up to 4" diameter.
    Above you mention that an M brand can keep it under 10 seconds.

    Just to provide you with the equazsion here:

    2" rad x 10s/sine

    2 x (10/3600 - sine)

    2 x (.0028 sine)

    2 x .0000485 = .0001"

    So - at 4" diameter, your 10 seconds is one tenth of a thousandths of an inch on location.


    I don't see the belt issue at all. I think you've been talking to too many "Sales Engineers" that are trying to baffle with bull shit. (and likely don't understand the numbers themselves either.


    I have Hardinge lathes and I know that the belt thing that you speak of is absolutely BS.



    Someone correct my math if it's wrong.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    You're math checks out after rounding I got .0001

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    Ox is correct, I am the applications engineering manager at Hardinge with over 30 years here. My intention is to only inform you of the specifications that we go to internally and to help you make a more informed decision on what Hardinge offers. With that said, we would certainly invite you to give us a call and we can get the applications/engineering/QC/Sales teams on the line to discuss directly any questions you may have regarding the H or V machines. I am not sure where the specifications you refer to where obtained from, as I just went through the H Series brochure and our quote tool for that machine, and the specifications for accuracy, or repeatability for that matter, on either the C or B axis features are not included in either document. I pulling my information from either our internal machine engineering specifications or inspection records data that I can locate.

    In any case the H Series machine is a very accurate machine based on our testing and machining of customer sample parts, not quite at the T Series level of accuracy but pretty darn close. The T Series machine is a machine capable of diving into the sub micron levels and is in a totally different class due to its construction, but again not every customer needs that level and the H Series was designed to fill the gap more between the T Series machine and the general precision machine market at a reasonable price point.

    In regards to the V1000 machine it is a very robust machine, which is based on and uses a lot of the same components, that were utilized on our older Hardinge\Bridgeport XR1000 series machines. Again in test cutting of the machine everyone who has seen it has been very impressed with its features, construction and price point.

    In regards to your specific machining requirements we would not be able to make a recommendation on machines or processing until we were to see actual prints of what your product and machining tolerance requirements are. Again we would welcome the opportunity to do so. Obviously we would keep your local representative in this loop.

    I would also like to add that 2outof3's comments above are indeed very valid when it pertains to maintaining extremely tight tolerances, this is one area that often times is overlooked by customers. Depending on the tolerance level required part processing, tooling, machine environment and etc become very critical.

    Again we at Hardinge would welcome having a direct discussion on any items you may have question on or to review your actual machining requirements, part prints and etc.

    I will be out of the office beginning today, returning on 11/30/2015, however we could be available for a conference call after the 30th.

    You can email me directly at [email protected] to set something up or ask question directly.

    In the mean time have a safe and happy thanksgiving

    best regards,

    Tom

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    Well, for the record, I think your expectations of an aux 4th on a mill are over-rated, and that of the C axis is way under-rated.

    Not that this is a Hardinge issue. I am sure that they are all similar. In this case IMO it is only a bragging rights contest. IMO it's already lower than the app can use already. I am speaking of the two different types of indexing, unless you are talking about getting the linear motored 4th from Hardinge. (I suppose someone else makes them by now - but Hardinge had the first)

    You want to resolve the B on an 800mm HMC, then those values are more justified.


    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Ox is correct, I am the applications engineering manager at Hardinge with over 30 years here. My intention is to only inform you of the specifications that we go to internally and to help you make a more informed decision on what Hardinge offers. With that said, we would certainly invite you to give us a call and we can get the applications/engineering/QC/Sales teams on the line to discuss directly any questions you may have regarding the H or V machines. I am not sure where the specifications you refer to where obtained from, as I just went through the H Series brochure and our quote tool for that machine, and the specifications for accuracy, or repeatability for that matter, on either the C or B axis features are not included in either document. I pulling my information from either our internal machine engineering specifications or inspection records data that I can locate.

    In any case the H Series machine is a very accurate machine based on our testing and machining of customer sample parts, not quite at the T Series level of accuracy but pretty darn close. The T Series machine is a machine capable of diving into the sub micron levels and is in a totally different class due to its construction, but again not every customer needs that level and the H Series was designed to fill the gap more between the T Series machine and the general precision machine market at a reasonable price point.

    In regards to the V1000 machine it is a very robust machine, which is based on and uses a lot of the same components, that were utilized on our older Hardinge\Bridgeport XR1000 series machines. Again in test cutting of the machine everyone who has seen it has been very impressed with its features, construction and price point.

    In regards to your specific machining requirements we would not be able to make a recommendation on machines or processing until we were to see actual prints of what your product and machining tolerance requirements are. Again we would welcome the opportunity to do so. Obviously we would keep your local representative in this loop.

    I would also like to add that 2outof3's comments above are indeed very valid when it pertains to maintaining extremely tight tolerances, this is one area that often times is overlooked by customers. Depending on the tolerance level required part processing, tooling, machine environment and etc become very critical.

    Again we at Hardinge would welcome having a direct discussion on any items you may have question on or to review your actual machining requirements, part prints and etc.

    I will be out of the office beginning today, returning on 11/30/2015, however we could be available for a conference call after the 30th.

    You can email me directly at [email protected] to set something up or ask question directly.

    In the mean time have a safe and happy thanksgiving

    best regards,

    Tom
    Tom I really appreciate that and look forward to working with you and Hardinge in a more direct way... That would be wonderful... Thank you very much and thank you to all that have contributed to the excellent discussion so far :-)

    I'm off to the barn!

    Big cheers to all,

    Eric

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    I saw a V1000 at a dealers with the covers off - I think by memory it had 4 rails on the Y.
    Memory says I thought it looked pretty robust and very good value for money.

    BTW OX - 10 out of 10 for the Maths

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Well, for the record, I think your expectations of an aux 4th on a mill are over-rated, and that of the C axis is way under-rated.

    Not that this is a Hardinge issue. I am sure that they are all similar. In this case IMO it is only a bragging rights contest. IMO it's already lower than the app can use already. I am speaking of the two different types of indexing, unless you are talking about getting the linear motored 4th from Hardinge. (I suppose someone else makes them by now - but Hardinge had the first)

    You want to resolve the B on an 800mm HMC, then those values are more justified.


    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    yeah... I would agree with that and what you say... so that's why I am saying maybe really worse comes to worse old school careful static set ups.. I think I can achieve the application goals but if I can't then I DO go to grinding :-) I am having to integrate various crossed roller bearing in pairs at screwy angles and maintain 1 micron linear repeatability and conic alignments/repeatability of the same order of a tool holder in a mill or better. That kind of thing...

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    Maybe you should be grinding right in the lathe then.

    With C and Y, you should be able to make the closest tol parts by dooing them complete in one chucking.

    I s'pose a diamond can be located somewhere, but I find it easiest to place in Turret 2, but in the case of an H lathe, no turret 2 to use, so need to find some other place to mount it.


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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