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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Is that like BIG users , or corporations ? [Not the small shop 5 cnc machines or less ? ]

    Do they offer something similar today ? / hand over $ for.
    AFAIK, anyone can attend. They do have class fees. Here are links to the current offerings...

    CNC Training Course Descriptions | FANUC America

    https://www.fanucamerica.com/docs/de...sn=5d5371b5_10



    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    If you buy a complete control system from them + servos is it possible to get deeper info from them more on the inside track ?
    I have never bought a system from Fanuc so don't know just how much support one would get. I did buy a complete 3 axis Mitsubishi CNC and servo system. It came with "training credit" that could be applied toward any of their classes. Would not be surprised if Fanuc handled it similarly.

    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    How are companies like TIE and other for tech support on those kinds of things or companies that specialize in reconditioned systems and components ? (to lean on versus specific training ?).
    I've had very limited contact with TIE folks outside of just ordering items from them. I've heard they do a reasonable job of helping someone determine what parts will be needed to fix a problem on a control.

    Back when I was still working, I bought the majority of CNC repair parts for the older machines we had off eBay sellers.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by GENERALDISARRAY View Post
    Thanks for that !

    That's actually suspiringly deep / yet accessible. Looks very good !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    AFAIK, anyone can attend. They do have class fees. Here are links to the current offerings...

    CNC Training Course Descriptions | FANUC America

    https://www.fanucamerica.com/docs/de...sn=5d5371b5_10





    I have never bought a system from Fanuc so don't know just how much support one would get. I did buy a complete 3 axis Mitsubishi CNC and servo system. It came with "training credit" that could be applied toward any of their classes. Would not be surprised if Fanuc handled it similarly.



    I've had very limited contact with TIE folks outside of just ordering items from them. I've heard they do a reasonable job of helping someone determine what parts will be needed to fix a problem on a control.

    Back when I was still working, I bought the majority of CNC repair parts for the older machines we had off eBay sellers.
    Thanks also ,

    worth digging in on.

    GOOD to know about Mits having similar scheme and presence.

    _________________________

    I know you speak very well of Mits control systems , front side and back side; seems on the MAZAK equipment that it's very well / almost over engineered back side.

    Also interesting that it seems there is an increased uptake of MTBs integrating with Mits controls , some I may have noticed happening in an incremental fashion.

    @vancbiker are there things you prefer about Mits over Fanuc ? Anything specific or just more general layout, logic and build quality / simplicity ?

    TIA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Thanks also ,

    worth digging in on.

    GOOD to know about Mits having similar scheme and presence.

    _________________________

    I know you speak very well of Mits control systems , front side and back side; seems on the MAZAK equipment that it's very well / almost over engineered back side.

    Also interesting that it seems there is an increased uptake of MTBs integrating with Mits controls , some I may have noticed happening in an incremental fashion.

    @vancbiker are there things you prefer about Mits over Fanuc ? Anything specific or just more general layout, logic and build quality / simplicity ?

    TIA.
    The Hardinge is on hold for now as I just don't have time for it at the moment, but It's funny Mitsubishi should come up. I just picked up an OKK PCV-40 with a Mitsubishi Meldas M300 control (I think its a m330) and I have to say so far I am impressed. The fact the machine isn't a total basket case could have something to do with it but considering both controls are within a couple years of each other the Meldas seems far more user friendly. Even stuff like parameters are nicely broken up into groups and labeled such as spindle parameters which made it super easy for me to increase the spindle accel/deccel ramp time. This is an 1989 and supposedly has the high speed machining option....we shall see what their idea of high speed was in 89.....

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    to be fair. Hardinge rode that 6T well beyond its heyday. I may be wrong but I recall seeing 87 vintage 4 axis superslants. I have a Miyano here that has a 0T-C and its a 89.The "dual path" funtionality on it is nonexistant compared to that superslant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    .......@vancbiker are there things you prefer about Mits over Fanuc ? Anything specific or just more general layout, logic and build quality / simplicity ?

    TIA.
    Mits are good controls. They often come with features as standard that Fanuc has as optional. Bigger memory, more offsets, multi-pitch helical interp., user modifiable ladder, etc. They are also lacking in a few areas. Mid-program restart is not as nice as Fanuc. Menus are sort of oddly arranged. Editing has a few quirks when searching. No control is "perfect".

    Fanuc still has a small edge in reliability, but very small. My home shop CNC with a Mits control is now 24 years old and has never had an electronic failure. Fanuc has a solid edge in long term parts availability. Mits is kind of spotty on parts for some models/versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    The Hardinge is on hold for now as I just don't have time for it at the moment, but It's funny Mitsubishi should come up. I just picked up an OKK PCV-40 with a Mitsubishi Meldas M300 control (I think its a m330) and I have to say so far I am impressed. The fact the machine isn't a total basket case could have something to do with it but considering both controls are within a couple years of each other the Meldas seems far more user friendly. Even stuff like parameters are nicely broken up into groups and labeled such as spindle parameters which made it super easy for me to increase the spindle accel/deccel ramp time. This is an 1989 and supposedly has the high speed machining option....we shall see what their idea of high speed was in 89.....
    You have to keep in mind that there is about 7 years difference in the origins of those two controls. An eternity in the world of computers in the 80s. The Fanuc 6 did not even have a CRT as standard when first released.

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  10. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by GENERALDISARRAY View Post
    .....I have a Miyano here that has a 0T-C and its a 89.The "dual path" funtionality on it is nonexistant compared to that superslant.
    To be more fair would be to compare with the 0TT which was a dual path control. Some builders in a cost cutting move used the single path 0T-C on multi-axis lathes. Was a horrible idea. Some implementations left the subspindle axis as W with no dry run or rapid override ability. A real butt clencher to prove out new programs on those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Well if you get really desperate after having tried everything, you could start trawling retirement communities in Elmira NY for suitable engineers that knew this hybrid SIEMENS / Fanuc mishmash on the SuperSlant. I'm not saying you should necessarily resort to kidnapping and hiring some good time girls and having your "Ward" snort lines of coke and crushed up blue pills whilst introducing them to your machine... But...
    Oddly enough I'm pretty sure I now work in the very building the OP's machine was built, tho Hardinge doesn't own it anymore, Hilliard does. That said the fact that there was a working tap system in the upper cafeteria/lounge area might well have had an impact on why Hardinge did what it did with these controls! Sadly the tap system has long since been removed. At any rate I'm fascinated to see what in fact winds up causing this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Well if you get really desperate after having tried everything, you could start trawling retirement communities in Elmira NY for suitable engineers that knew this hybrid SIEMENS / Fanuc mishmash on the SuperSlant. I'm not saying you should necessarily resort to kidnapping and hiring some good time girls and having your "Ward" snort lines of coke and crushed up blue pills whilst introducing them to your machine... But...
    That's funny.
    Not much chance tho, most that retire in NYS move the hell away from high taxes, crappy winters, and our looney-toon governor. .

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCKrazed View Post
    Oddly enough I'm pretty sure I now work in the very building the OP's machine was built, tho Hardinge doesn't own it anymore, Hilliard does. That said the fact that there was a working tap system in the upper cafeteria/lounge area might well have had an impact on why Hardinge did what it did with these controls! Sadly the tap system has long since been removed. At any rate I'm fascinated to see what in fact winds up causing this issue.
    Mens club room was on the second floor at collage ave plant. Although with some of the Rube Goldberg engineering that went on over the years, it does make you wonder if engineering meetings were also held in that room......with the taps working.

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    Yup, that's plant I work at now. The Men's club is now our cafeteria/break room. That must've been some hangout up there back in the day! And it wouldn't shock me if engineering utilized that room a time or two!

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    I hate to admit defeat but I was doing a quick audit of the iron on the machine and it appears at some point there was an lube oil issue with one of the Z ways and that is the final nail in the coffin for this old girl. It was sill a useful learning experience and I don't regret any of the time I spent on it. It is without a doubt worth more dead than alive at this point so I have decided to part it out and scrap the rest and use the money to purchase something that's less of a basket case. If anyone needs any parts for one of these feel free to contact me. I'm going to place an add in the for sale section and start listing some of the larger components on ebay but at this point most of the machine is up for grabs.

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  19. #193
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    If you didn't find that problem, the turret would have been another. The turret design on those machines was a total POS with constant problems.

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    Good there should be somewhat of a demand for them then HAHA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I hate to admit defeat but I was doing a quick audit of the iron on the machine and it appears at some point there was an lube oil issue with one of the Z ways and that is the final nail in the coffin for this old girl. It was sill a useful learning experience and I don't regret any of the time I spent on it. It is without a doubt worth more dead than alive at this point so I have decided to part it out and scrap the rest and use the money to purchase something that's less of a basket case. If anyone needs any parts for one of these feel free to contact me. I'm going to place an add in the for sale section and start listing some of the larger components on ebay but at this point most of the machine is up for grabs.
    Dang !

    So we will never learn the Tap-room "Logic" of the two main boards and the secrets of the missing schematic and the dark arts related to gene splicing Fanuc and Siemens control hardware together. Lol.

    BTW thanks for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Mits are good controls. They often come with features as standard that Fanuc has as optional. Bigger memory, more offsets, multi-pitch helical interp., user modifiable ladder, etc. They are also lacking in a few areas. Mid-program restart is not as nice as Fanuc. Menus are sort of oddly arranged. Editing has a few quirks when searching. No control is "perfect".

    Fanuc still has a small edge in reliability, but very small. My home shop CNC with a Mits control is now 24 years old and has never had an electronic failure. Fanuc has a solid edge in long term parts availability. Mits is kind of spotty on parts for some models/versions.
    Thanks for your professional opinion on that, we may be pressed into building very simple but very precise machines (for in-house use) for very specific simple tasks.

    Maybe an alterative to Heidenhain or Mach 4 / Linux CNC type control systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Dang !

    So we will never learn the Tap-room "Logic" of the two main boards and the secrets of the missing schematic and the dark arts related to gene splicing Fanuc and Siemens control hardware together.

    BTW thanks for sharing.
    To be honest after buying an Osaka Kiko with a Meldas M320 I am starting to become a bit of a Mitsubishi fanboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    To be honest after buying an Osaka Kiko with a Meldas M320 I am starting to become a bit of a Mitsubishi fanboy
    Awesomeness

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Thanks for your professional opinion on that, we may be pressed into building very simple but very precise machines (for in-house use) for very specific simple tasks.

    Maybe an alterative to Heidenhain or Mach 4 / Linux CNC type control systems.
    For custom machines for your own use linux is going to be a good choice. My son has mach something on a router and while it works it has a very toy/hobby feel. If you were talking machines for others to use, then an industrial grade control like Meldas or Fanuc is a better choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    For custom machines for your own use linux is going to be a good choice. My son has mach something on a router and while it works it has a very toy/hobby feel. If you were talking machines for others to use, then an industrial grade control like Meldas or Fanuc is a better choice.
    I have mach 3 on a plasma table and while it is super easy to implement it does have that plastic feel to it and doesn't inspire confidence in the machine. If I had to do it over I would use Linux but I have mach working well so it's not worth bothering with at this point as its only a plasma table.


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