Hardinge Superslant Troubleshooting - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Here is a pic of the whole schematic. I downloaded some of the German stuff on the drive itself but remember it being very difficult to obtain and creating several accounts blah blah blah. If I really need to I can dig it up and post it but I would think we are more interested in what the Fanuc controller is looking for. It doesn't appear to directly interface with the servo drives but rather through the controller itself. Feel free to stop me at any point as I am currently scatter brained. I'm purely guessing but maybe the controller is waiting for an ok signal from the spindle in order to enable the servos......or maybe there is also a problem with the servos (I hope not).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails drives.jpg  

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    Need a larger/higher resolution picture to work with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Here is a pic of the whole schematic. I downloaded some of the German stuff on the drive itself but remember it being very difficult to obtain and creating several accounts blah blah blah. If I really need to I can dig it up and post it but I would think we are more interested in what the Fanuc controller is looking for. It doesn't appear to directly interface with the servo drives but rather through the controller itself. Feel free to stop me at any point as I am currently scatter brained. I'm purely guessing but maybe the controller is waiting for an ok signal from the spindle in order to enable the servos......or maybe there is also a problem with the servos (I hope not).
    I just flicked through the 389 pages of the Fanuc system 6T model B Download PDF Fanuc 6T Maintenance Manual - CNC Manual

    ^^ same document cited earlier

    … To get a handle on the whole architecture and find that "Easy" jumper to fool the whole system into thinking it can jog about using the MDI / crt control circuit interface (yes I know the display is not needed.).

    closest I got to (kinda what Vancbiker is talking about) is on page 244

    AC spindle control board / PCB and details...

    ac-spindle-unit-pcb.jpg

    I'm so ignorant I don't know if you have an AC or DC spindle... I think Vanc-B mentioned it earlier in this thread will re-read.

    But it does show the connector (bottom center of PCB diagram) for the Alarm signals that go out to the main control.

    Just above that alarm signal connector are these set of tantalizing jumper switches than can be set.

    so then …

    ac-spindle-unit-jumper-settings.jpg

    ^^^ (On page 255) However in spite of their proximity to the alarm signal connector they appear to do rather different things (yet closely related ?) ...

    So I'm still trying to find Vancbiker's simple hack for fooling the control /PLC / MDI to be happy to jog the axes around and ignore various "difficulties" with the spindle.

    Still no cigar … I'm not even at the soggy remnant and dog end of a rollup cigarette stomped into the ground lol.

    Trying to get a handle on the 'pattern" so it might be easier to find what you are looking for (in this case).

    Not exactly the blind leading the blind but let's just say 'Partially sighted" lol.

    Doesn't help that upstream is FANUC (Japanese) and downstream Siemens German... [FANUC is growing on me as to what they document and detail especially for a 100% Fanuc system.].

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    I'll have to re-read this thread as there's a lot to reconstruct to figure out where you are / got to exactly


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    It is a DC spindle.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Need a larger/higher resolution picture to work with.
    My apologies, I didn't check the pic before I posted it. Here's a screenshot, if it would help I can send you the pdf file
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screenshot-34-.jpg  

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Need a larger/higher resolution picture to work with.
    I'm glad it's not just me, but I thought surely you know what all those blurry smudges are ? ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    It is a DC spindle.





    My apologies, I didn't check the pic before I posted it. Here's a screenshot, if it would help I can send you the pdf file
    What are you using Microsoft 'De-bigulator" / Smudge-atron ~ I'm kidding ,it is difficult to handle large hi-res diagrams with tiny lines everywhere.

    If you shoot down onto your paper diagram parallel to the diagram i.e. don't tilt your phone , so the whole plane will be in focus (flatten the paper print out so it's really flat). Step ladder , put it on the floor or maybe just two really clear side by side shots parallel to the plane of the paper diagram should do it. Even-ish light (more if you have it) if you can manage it ? (phone stops down automatically so you have greater depth of field and more is in focus with more light without washing everything out).

    Your camera tilt creates a shallow focal plane that cuts through a narrow slice of the paper document as a tilted plane.

    Maybe even four shots that could probably be mosaiced together... Mentally or literally (on the computer)

    __________________________________________________ __________________

    I can dig up the DC version of that board in a mo... [Fanuc seems less instructive . more obscure about the DC spindle control board .].

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    AAA.pdf - Google Drive

    Sorry for all the issues with the file. I uploaded it to google drive, above is the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    ......I'm so ignorant I don't know if you have an AC or DC spindle...
    Sadly, the OP's machine is a 3rd party spindle drive. Not really sure what motivated some builders to do that when by the time the the machine was made, Fanuc had spindle drives that would have suited. Using 3rd party drives leaves the bulk of, and robustness (or lack thereof), of the interface up to the machine builder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    AAA.pdf - Google Drive

    Sorry for all the issues with the file. I uploaded it to google drive, above is the link.
    Thanks for that , that's a 1000 X clearer …

    I suspect the Fanuc DC control board won't be a million miles away from what SIEMENS decided to implement in principal.

    I'm mutli-tasking this morning / in-an out (although some days I have trouble uni-tasking lol, but today I'm reasonably sharp.).

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    The schematic I uploaded is a Hardinge schematic

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    Installing a jumper between terminals 72 and 73 should bypass the lack of a ready signal from the spindle drive. Jumpering connections 1 and 3 of relay 27CR will bypass the Field Loss error that will exist because the spindle drive is not operational.

    That should remove the spindle drive from the E-stop circuit.

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    dc-spindle-jumper-settings-64-80.jpg


    I'm wondering ^^^ What "Control enable " - 64 - jumpered ----> to 80 "Spindle Stop Set point"

    If that is pulled (disconnected) does that bypass the control all together / other circuitry that might prevent you interacting with MDI / jog as it detects that the whole spindle circuit is "sick".

    I would still expect something else on the control side.

    I'll keep looking .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Installing a jumper between terminals 72 and 73 should bypass the lack of a ready signal from the spindle drive. Jumpering connections 1 and 3 of relay 27CR will bypass the Field Loss error that will exist because the spindle drive is not operational.

    That should remove the spindle drive from the E-stop circuit.
    Beat me to it didn't see this... ^^^

    I was wondering what "Field Loss " error does ?

    What is encompassed by "Field loss" ?

    Or "Field weakening input signal " _ 107 ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Installing a jumper between terminals 72 and 73 should bypass the lack of a ready signal from the spindle drive. Jumpering connections 1 and 3 of relay 27CR will bypass the Field Loss error that will exist because the spindle drive is not operational.

    That should remove the spindle drive from the E-stop circuit.
    Attachment 264272

    27-cr-relay.jpg

    ^^^^ Took me a bit of time to find 27CR just in case you were wondering... @Hardplates

    One mo...

    So @Vancbiker do you mean …

    Bypass the coil (short out) at F1 and F2,

    OR

    Jumper terminal 33 and 34 * ?

    OR

    connect / short out / bridge / "Jumper" ---> 2 and 7 either side of 27CR ? (relay)

    Can't find or see 1 and 3 you refer too...

    Just to make sure.

    Ta

    __________________________________________________ _________

    * I also see "Filed + " and "field -" @ terminals 33 and 34 ? (wondered what's that all about ? Is that part of the "Field loss" as in like/ analogous to loss of military hardware in the 'Field" or loss of some kind of electric field , or receptive field ? ) .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Installing a jumper between terminals 72 and 73 should bypass the lack of a ready signal from the spindle drive. Jumpering connections 1 and 3 of relay 27CR will bypass the Field Loss error that will exist because the spindle drive is not operational.

    That should remove the spindle drive from the E-stop circuit.
    That is what I did and it comes out of estop but the drive fault light is on at the control station and there is an alarm, I believe 2004 x axis brake

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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  22. #56
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    dc-spindle-control-board-fanuc.jpg

    ^^^ So here's the DC spindle control board (FANUC) so that gives a bit of clue as to what the Fanuc control may be expecting to receive in terms of signal inputs from the spindle controller.

    You can see the LEDs and FIELD LOSS at the left hand side. (page 238.).

    @Hardplates I think you are getting warm , and I anticipate eventually you will turn the corner on all this I.e. your fear of everything being completely buggered-up is unlikely unless the machine received a direct lightening strike or something lol

    Seems solvable I'll look up 2004 X axis brake fault thing ( need to do some stuff in the mean time)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Attachment 264272

    27-cr-relay.jpg

    ^^^^ Took me a bit of time to find 27CR just in case you were wondering... @Hardplates

    One mo...

    So @Vancbiker do you mean …

    Bypass the coil (short out) at F1 and F2,

    OR

    Jumper terminal 33 and 34 * ?

    OR

    connect / short out / bridge / "Jumper" ---> 2 and 7 either side of 27CR ? (relay)

    Can't find or see 1 and 3 you refer too...

    Just to make sure.

    Ta

    __________________________________________________ _________

    * I also see "Filed + " and "field -" @ terminals 33 and 34 ? (wondered what's that all about ? Is that part of the "Field loss" as in like/ analogous to loss of military hardware in the 'Field" or loss of some kind of electric field , or receptive field ? ) .
    I believe the "7" is a 3. Either way I have that relay removed and the estop string side 1 and 3 jumped. The machine comes out of estop

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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  25. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Attachment 264272

    27-cr-relay.jpg

    ^^^^ Took me a bit of time to find 27CR just in case you were wondering... @Hardplates

    One mo...

    So @Vancbiker do you mean …

    Bypass the coil (short out) at F1 and F2,

    OR

    Jumper terminal 33 and 34 * ?

    OR

    connect / short out / bridge / "Jumper" ---> 2 and 7 either side of 27CR ? (relay)

    Can't find or see 1 and 3 you refer too...

    Just to make sure.

    Ta

    __________________________________________________ _________

    * I also see "Filed + " and "field -" @ terminals 33 and 34 ? (wondered what's that all about ? Is that part of the "Field loss" as in like/ analogous to loss of military hardware in the 'Field" or loss of some kind of electric field , or receptive field ? ) .
    There is a set of contacts of 27CR in the e-stop circuit. Wire numbers 96 and 97 or relay terminals 1 and 3. that is where the jumper should go.

    Jumpering terminals 33 and 34 on the drive will very possibly let out a large amount of smoke if one tries to power up the drive. Those are the power for the field winding of the spindle motor.

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  27. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    There is a set of contacts of 27CR in the e-stop circuit. Wire numbers 96 and 97 or relay terminals 1 and 3. that is where the jumper should go.

    Jumpering terminals 33 and 34 on the drive will very possibly let out a large amount of smoke if one tries to power up the drive. Those are the power for the field winding of the spindle motor.
    Was wondering how big that inductor or coil was ;-)

    I'll keep searching for the 3

    (sorry to be obstructive/ meddlesome … to the process here ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I believe the "7" is a 3. Either way I have that relay removed and the estop string side 1 and 3 jumped. The machine comes out of estop

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    I see a 7 not a 3 ?--- For 27 CR...

    Where is 3 (sorry to ask ?)

    I'll find the terminals that Vanc_b is referring to.

    diagram I downloaded is super crisp as a PDF [I can blow it up real large)


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