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  1. #161
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    My god all this effort on the control....
    Have you had a look at the Turrets yet? They are the crappiest feature on these machines.
    Indexed by an under-powered and over-complicated air motor and locking mechanism.
    Coolant usually gets in and reeks havoc.
    I'd be checking out the hardware before spending hours and hours on control issues.

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    OK, I may or may not be getting somewhere. None of the PRDY relays are being triggered to close, so the problem must be on the Fanuc side of things. I saw in some previous postings that a 900 series alarm will prevent a PRDY signal. Although I don't display any alarms in the 900s I booted the machine in IL mode and if I select 5 (I think) it shows system error (tool post 1) 910 Oh my we are back to this again and its with a different board. What are the chances the replacement has the same issue as the one it replaced? Is it possible that it could be a ram error from the PC model B card? I have a spare main board for parts so if I can figure out what is wrong I should be able to piece something together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    My god all this effort on the control....
    Have you had a look at the Turrets yet? They are the crappiest feature on these machines.
    Indexed by an under-powered and over-complicated air motor and locking mechanism.
    Coolant usually gets in and reeks havoc.
    I'd be checking out the hardware before spending hours and hours on control issues.
    Far better to learn on something you don't care much about than to learn on something that actually matters. I have machines with Fanuc controls from this era and plan on getting more in the future as they are cheap and no one seems to want them or be able to operate them. Some people watch and follow sports for fun, I try and spend my spare time learning things that could be useful to myself.

  4. #164
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    I just swapped the main boards around and despite their location the one that is in the one position always has a ram error, low byte #2. So there obviously is nothing wrong with either of the main boards themselves. The only commonality the error displays is the PC model B card which has some RAM and ROM on it itself. It's a guess but maybe the logic running through the RAM leaves the main board to go to the PC model B card and then back to the main board and is causing it to think it has bad RAM. Lots of gates and drivers on the card also. I just pray it isn't something on the EPROM's as I have none of the programing and I believe Hardinge told me I was out of luck getting it from them.

  5. #165
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    Your machine has more than one main board???

    I recently dealt with an 11M with a system RAM parity error. There was no obvious RAM chips on the motherboard. I could not get info about where the RAM on the main board is from Fanuc. I could only presume that the RAM was part of one or both of the Fanuc LSIs on the main board. Fanuc had replacement motherboards available or could repair the bad one. I ended up getting a different motherboard off ebay to fix the machine.

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  7. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Your machine has more than one main board???

    I recently dealt with an 11M with a system RAM parity error. There was no obvious RAM chips on the motherboard. I could not get info about where the RAM on the main board is from Fanuc. I could only presume that the RAM was part of one or both of the Fanuc LSIs on the main board. Fanuc had replacement motherboards available or could repair the bad one. I ended up getting a different motherboard off ebay to fix the machine.
    OK, I have uploaded 3 pics.

    (1) a pic of the main board number 1 with all the cards mounted and you can see the I/O's below. All ram IC's are hidden behind the cards

    (2) a pic of the main board number 2 mounted on the door that has a ROM card and Bubble memory card. I also marked in red 2 of the 6 ram IC's, the rest are behind the cards

    (3) a pic of the PC Model B card on the bench. I marked the RAM IC's in red. I also swapped the two around as well as the other IC's that have blue sharpie on them. I swapped the low and high byte IC's in the hopes if I moved the culprit the control would then show a high byte error.

    This is the initial problem I had with this machine except the screen would only show 910 alarm. Now in order to see this alarm I must boot it up in IL mode and select number 5 (PC something or other). If I select 6, Ram test and hit start the LEDs on the main board show a bad number 2 ram which is a low byte. Regardless of which main board is in the number one location it still shows a bad number 2 ram on tool post 1 (board 1 location). This leads me to believe the main boards are fine, and the issue is in the PC model B card.....I hope its not in the ROM. Although I don't know enough about this to know if a corrupt ROM could cause such an error????


    Things are a little rough from me working on it so much. If I ever get it going I'll tidy all the wiring back up and clean things up.

    Although this could be a bastard to trace down in a way it's a good thing cause I'm back to the initial failure of the machine which means maybe I'm not chasing my tail.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails main-1.jpg   inkedmain-2_li.jpg   inkedpc-b_li.jpg  

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    Wow! I have never worked on or seen a machine with a 6 series control that was using dual motherboards. When you originally said 3 axis lathe, I was imagining an X, Z, C live tool setup. I don't recall ever reading about a dual motherboard setup either so not sure how the controls interoperate. Talk about muddying the water further!

    Appendix 14 of the maintenance manual outlines the IL RAM test process. Honestly I do not recall ever having done that test before so no insight as to how it works. It also shows where the RAM is on the motherboard are. If it points out a faulty RAM then you can swap the RAM with another RAM and re-run the test. If the test results with the error at the new location then pretty safe to figure the chip is bad. If it does not follow then something must be getting corrupted when loading
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 09-06-2019 at 01:23 AM. Reason: added content

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  10. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Wow! I have never worked on or seen a machine with a 6 series control that was using dual motherboards. When you originally said 3 axis lathe, I was imagining an X, Z, C live tool setup. I don't recall ever reading about a dual motherboard setup either so not sure how the controls interoperate. Talk about muddying the water further!

    Appendix 14 of the maintenance manual outlines the IL RAM test process. Honestly I do not recall ever having done that test before so no insight as to how it works. It also shows where the RAM is on the motherboard are. If it points out a faulty RAM then you can swap the RAM with another RAM and re-run the test. If the test results with the error at the new location then pretty safe to figure the chip is bad. If it does not follow then something must be getting corrupted when loading
    That is what I did. When you boot in IL mode you select 6 for RAM test and then hit start and then go around to the back of the machine and check the LEDs on the main boards. What I was saying before is whatever board I put in the 1 position has a #2 bad RAM. At this point I am assuming the main boards are OK.

    My question is what outside of the main board could cause this issue? A fault on the PC Model B card? Could a corrupted EPROM (either on the ROM card or PC model B card)cause this? (please say no haha)

    I have very little knowledge of how computers work but so rough thinking in my head would be that it determines a bad ram during the parity check which I would think is long before it reads anything from any ROMs. I believe (a big guess) the controller won't fully boot up if it does have a bad RAM IC which again is leading me to the PC Model B card. I am making a lot of assumption here because of my limited knowledge in this area so anyone feel free to chime in and correct me.

    Just incase I think I am going to start a new thread in search of the EPROMs for this machine. If I can get the files then I will buy a device to burn the chips. I assume I can take the EPROMS out of other machines and read them with the device to create a backup? If this is the case I will be making backup of everything I have and everything I get in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    .....My question is what outside of the main board could cause this issue? A fault on the PC Model B card? Could a corrupted EPROM (either on the ROM card or PC model B card)cause this? (please say no haha) .......
    I've never tried this on a 6 series, but on the 11 series you can boot the control without the PC card installed. It won't run of course, but that can be done in an attempt to narrow down what component is causing trouble. You might try that on your control to see if something about the PC card is causing your 910 alarm.

    On the 11 series you cannot boot the control without the ROM card in place. I would expect the same with the 6 series too.

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  13. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I've never tried this on a 6 series, but on the 11 series you can boot the control without the PC card installed. It won't run of course, but that can be done in an attempt to narrow down what component is causing trouble. You might try that on your control to see if something about the PC card is causing your 910 alarm.

    On the 11 series you cannot boot the control without the ROM card in place. I would expect the same with the 6 series too.
    I believe I did this and there was just a flashing light on the main board. I will try it again as well as hit 5 in IL mode and see if the 910 alarm is there. I'll do all this later today and document the results.

    Thanks for the idea!

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    There is definitely something off going on here. When I boot up in IL mode it sometimes says 910 and other times 999 122 (sometimes also 132 and some others) and 911 which is high byte. But if I keep shutting it down and booting it back up in IL it randomly goes back and forth between these two alarms. Same deal with the PC-B card out. The odd thing is 122 and 132 or it seems any of the ROM slots it says are bad are not populated and they are not supposed to be populated. I've also tried some mild percussive maintenance with no results.

    I also took all the EPROMS out of both ROM cards and swapped them so at this point I would assume it is safe to say the cards themselves are OK but I don't know if a corrupt EPROM could cause this.

    After some further reading it appears the EPROMS files are from Fanuc and not Hardinge? Is this correct? If so maybe I'll have better luck getting them or finding someone with them. It's a 6t Series M40 Vers 04. I also have all the numbers for the EPROMS. At this point I am fairly confident the issue lies within the controller side.

    Also does anyone know anything about the enable disable jumpers on the ROM boards? The only thing I could find in the Fanuc manual refers to a model A, it also doesn't say anything about if there is two main boards. I believe the original configuration (I only assume this cause it is how it was when I got it) it enable on ROM card 1 and disable on ROM card 2, although it seems to get closer to running when they are both set to enable.

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    I am probably grasping at straws here but it is possible these alarms are some remnants of before I replaced the main board? Meaning maybe I need to do the whole "reset delete" (I think that is the right combo of keys, I'm just going off a bad memory now) thing to clear the memory and renter the parameters? This has not been done since changing the main board.

    Guess I will have to try later today but I'm curious if anyone has an opinion of this?

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    I just dealt with software on a fanuc 6 mill. Totally different issue.
    The Pc model b has the MTBs software. the Rom board has fanucs/general numerics lathe software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I recently dealt with an 11M with a system RAM parity error. There was no obvious RAM chips on the motherboard. I could not get info about where the RAM on the main board is from Fanuc. I could only presume ...
    This is one reason I always prefer obsolete US controls. You could get full, complete documentation. In fact you could build new boards from the docs that came with some - K&T for instance. Every control I had, I could call up tech support and get handholding through the problem and all the information was available. Guys built aftermarket memory boards for Bendix and Westinghouse controls just from their docs.

    In conrast, had a Mitutoyo cmm at one time. It came with some typed setup info. When I called Mitutoyo to verify some stuff, I mentioned the setup sheet. The guy said "that doesn't exist." So I told him the publication number. He then said (angrily) "Where did you get that ?!" He knew the answers the whole time but was not going to let lowly little user me have the info.

    Jap jerks. Too bad we only had two bombs.

  18. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I am probably grasping at straws here but it is possible these alarms are some remnants of before I replaced the main board? Meaning maybe I need to do the whole "reset delete" (I think that is the right combo of keys, I'm just going off a bad memory now) thing to clear the memory and renter the parameters? This has not been done since changing the main board.

    Guess I will have to try later today but I'm curious if anyone has an opinion of this?
    Sounds like a plan Stan (at this point) …

    However what might be super helpful is IF you can make a basic system diagram of all your boards and how the two main boards relate to each other … 'cuz that's causing a lot of head scratching. + board numbers.

    Doesn't have to be pretty … We can make a block diagram later that looks like it came out of a FANUC manual

    Eventually that might make it easier to frame a very succinct question to someone at Hardinge (eventually) given that the Key -sheet is missing,

    Speaking of which …

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    This is one reason I always prefer obsolete US controls. You could get full, complete documentation. In fact you could build new boards from the docs that came with some - K&T for instance. Every control I had, I could call up tech support and get handholding through the problem and all the information was available. Guys built aftermarket memory boards for Bendix and Westinghouse controls just from their docs.

    In conrast, had a Mitutoyo cmm at one time. It came with some typed setup info. When I called Mitutoyo to verify some stuff, I mentioned the setup sheet. The guy said "that doesn't exist." So I told him the publication number. He then said (angrily) "Where did you get that ?!" He knew the answers the whole time but was not going to let lowly little user me have the info.

    Jap jerks. Too bad we only had two bombs.
    I'm not sure how an increase in atomic munitions (circa 1946) is gonna help your Mitutoyo tech support situation ?

    Well... the USAF + incendiaries did way more damage anyway... Relentless carpet bombing. (probably would not have made much difference.).

    Does make you wonder if (at this very moment ) there's an old Japanese codger in a garage somewhere (in Ota Ward, South Tokyo ), regretting having bought a Hardinge Superslant lathe off a US air base... Grumbling and cursing about how Hardinge won't give him the missing schematic and we shouldn't have just stopped at Pearl Harbor ?


    cool about the aftermarket memory boards though. (thumbs up). Worth bearing in mind.

  20. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Here are some images of info how the 6 series deals with servo systems.
    6-series-servo-interface-hardware-vancs-drawings-.jpg

    I thought this was pretty cute,

    @Vancbiker were those transcribed drawing you made in the field or was that part of special (secret) training you had ?

  21. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    6-series-servo-interface-hardware-vancs-drawings-.jpg

    I thought this was pretty cute,

    @Vancbiker were those transcribed drawing you made in the field or was that part of special (secret) training you had ?
    Part of material given at a Fanuc training course ~30 years ago. Not special nor secret. Maintenance training classes were/are available from Fanuc to users.

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  23. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Part of material given at a Fanuc training course ~30 years ago. Not special nor secret. Maintenance training classes were/are available from Fanuc to users.
    Is that like BIG users , or corporations ? [Not the small shop 5 cnc machines or less ? ]

    Do they offer something similar today ? / hand over $ for.

    I have combed through some of the development options for Fanuc and their SDK (software development kit).

    If you buy a complete control system from them + servos is it possible to get deeper info from them more on the inside track ?

    How are companies like TIE and other for tech support on those kinds of things or companies that specialize in reconditioned systems and components ? (to lean on versus specific training ?).

  24. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Do they offer something similar today ? / hand over $ for.
    yes and yes

    CNC and ROBODRILL Training Schedule | FANUC America

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