Hardinge T42 Drive Replacement

I had to replace a drive on my lathe (Hardinge T42 w/Fanuc 18t control). The caps were going out on the drive and I would get an intermittent error on startup. Called Fanuc on it and that is what they suggested anyway.

I put the new drive and my question is how do I get the machine running again? Do I just need to home the Z axis and turret now per 9.3 and 9.8 of the maintenance manual? I have done the axis homing routine and that is pretty straight forward.

The turret procedure looks like you hit zero return and send it to position 1 to 12 and back and set the home from that. Is that correct? Any hints?

Matt

Does your machine have absolute encoders? Or limit switch for zero return. Two different procedures depending on which style


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I honestly am not 100% sure. I have to home the machine's x and y when booting the machine. I don't have to do so with the turret. So does that mean absolute only on the turret? Any way to tell definitively?

It sounds like you already homed the X and Z axes? Then, yes, you would just need to home the turret by pressing the turret index and zero return buttons at the same time. There are really no tricks to it. The turret will pop out and do a rotation to position #1 and then seat back down. Then you should be good to go. You should probably confirm that it's giving you position 1 when you call for it. And re-set a known tool offset to make sure your home positions didn't move.

So I turned on the machine homed x and y and requested a turret index and zero return at the same time. The drive gives me a #8 error and the control gives a 141 servo alarm and a 1003 turret unclamped alarm. The turret moved out a bit then stopped prior to rotation and stayed unclamped. #8 drive error is an overcurrent alarm? Not sure what that means in this context.

Thoughts?

All you did was replace the drive?

Was the turret indexing normally before replacing the drive?

If yes to both, then I would check the wiring to make sure you put the drive back the same way it was. Then check to make sure there is no obstruction to the turret that would prevent it from moving. If those are ok, then I would contact whoever I got the drive from and tell them what's going on. Maybe you got a bad drive?

With the turret unclamped, you can manually rotate the turret to make sure it moves freely. There's a small cover on the bottom of the turret near the tailstock. If you remove that, it should expose the bottom of the worm gear shaft that rotates the turret. You can stick a hex key in the bottom of that shaft and rotate it to see if it moves freely.

Hopefully, Ox chimes in. I think he knows these machines pretty well.

IDK the procedure for the T machines with the absolute encoders.

If it was a Quest series I may be able to hep, but not on this one.


----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Have you got this going yet?
No posts in 2 days...


I re-read the first post, and now realize that he does NOT have ABS encoders.

So - with re-reading it, I now see that you did not state which amp that you replaced, but I take it that you replaced the X/Z amp?

If so - that should have nothing to doo with the turret.

To HOME the turret, you just push down on ZERO RETURN button that is down and to the left of the E-STOP button.
While holding that down - then you push the TURRET INDEX button up by the turret dial.
It doesn't matter at this time which station the dial is set at as it will HOME to pos1.

You will then need to re-home the X and Z (and sub sp if you have that).


As far as why you are gitt'n alarms on the drives - I have no clue.
If you have HOMED X and Z already, then you must have got that part right.

It seems that maybe that you bumped or ??? a plug off of the other drive, but IDK what cable that you could have knocked off that wouldn't give you an alarm untill you tell it to go?
The power leads from the amp to the motor being off would act similar to what you are saying - although I'm not sure which alarms they would throw.
But if the encoder cable got knocked off - you would git a "communication" error or some such thing - as soon as you boot up, so ...

How about this maybe?
Any chance that you didn't get the buss bars hooked up, or maybe not tightened up to that amp on re-assembly?
I'm not sure without opening up the cabinet, but I'm guessing that the X/Z amp is #3 in the stack, and the turret is #4, and thus the bars would have had to have been taken off to pull amp 3.

.. and this is all ass_u_ming that you have Alpha amps.


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I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

No I haven't got it going yet, just getting back to it today.

I replaced the x/turret servo amp according to the tags above the unit. The x-functionality seems to be ok but the turret is giving me trouble.

When I attempt to home the turret as described above, or do any sort of turret move I get a #8 error on the drive. It does start to move out but then errors.

As far as absolute vs incremental. I think I have incremental on all axis's. not sure if they mix and match but param 1815 is all zeros.

I reached out to Hardinge and they were helpful. Sent me a test and a machine setup procedure. The test:

"Power down complete.

Wait 30 seconds.

Power back up.

Leave the estop mushroom button pressed in.

Hold in on estop reset.

While holding press turret index.

See if the turret moves out.

If not check power to the turret raise lower valve.



If it raises out reset up turret home per attached."


The turret does move out so I guess its onto the setup procedure.



MAIN TURRET (NON-ABSOLUTE “A OR B” CONTROL)
1]. NOTE: (If Ballscrew Sub-Spindle, Turn K10.3 OFF)
2]. Set Turret Proximity Switches (See The Run And Adjust Final Assembly Instructions
For This Process)
3]. Adjust Decel Dog Until Decel Switch LED Just Goes Out
4]. Zero Return Turret:
5]. In Zero return Mode, Press BLK-SKIP, Turret Will Raise Then Press And
Hold ZERO RETURN And TURRET Buttons, It Will Zero Return. If The Turret
Does Not Line Up With Station #1, Move The Decel Dog Around And Find The Spot
Where The Line Is Closest To Lining Up.
6]. (Zero Return The Turret Each Time You Move The Decel Dog.)
7]. Press SYSTEM Hard Key
8]. Press DGNOS Soft Key
9]. Input 301, Press NO-SCH Key
10]. Press REPEAT MODE
11]. Press PROGRAM 1 & 2 To Move The Turret And Line Up To Station #1
12]. When Station #1 Is Lined-up, Press REPEAT MODE,
13]. Press BLK-SKIP (Turret Should Sit Down)
14]. Record The Number In 301A
15]. If The Turret Was Moved Clockwise To Line Up Station #1, Take The Number From
301A And Input This Number In Parameter 1850A
OR-
If The Turret Was Moved Counter clockwise To Line Up Station #1, Take The Number
From 301A And Subtract 360000 From It.(It Should Be Negative). Input This Number
In Parameter 1850A
16]. Power Down Control Then Re-Initialize.
17]. Re-Zero The Turret
18]. Make Sure Turret Sits Down
(If Turret Does Not Sit Down Repeat Steps 3 - 17)
19]. Press SYSTEM Hard Key
20]. Press DGNOS Soft Key
21]. Input 300, Press NO-SCH Key
22]. Check Number In 300A.
23]. Rotate The Turret Through All Stations And Find The Highest Number.
24]. Take The Opposite Of The Highest Number Found, And Add This Number To The
Number Already In Parameter 1850A.
25]. Power Down Control Then Re-Initialize.
26]. Re-Zero The Turret
27]. Repeat Step 21 (The Number Should Be ± 30 Counts)
(If The Number Is Not ± 30 Counts Repeat Steps 22-26)
28]. Lock Down Set Screws On Decel Dog.

Oh boy

1) not sure if my sub spindle is ball screw or not. Any idea how to know?
2) I am assuming the switches were adjusted because the turret worked fine prior to the drive change.
3) Where is the decel dog? does this need to be adjusted or is this for first time setup??
5) not sure what zero return mode is but I turned it on without homing x/y. prested blk skip and the blk skip light went on, pressed zero return and turret index and it had the same error as always. did something wrong along the way. not sure where the turret button is if its not the turret index button

Ball screw sub = a programable E axis, which I'm sure that you have, as you would Shirley know if you was adjusting a hydro unit all the time.

The turret dog and switches are under a cover on top of the turret casting, anj just to the right of the top plate. Ass_u_ming that it's the same as a T51.

So you did have the turret motor leads unhooked then?
Are you sure that youhave the wires onin the right order?
The warrs are color coded, and as stock, they would all be the same order as the others.


----------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ok I will pull the top sheet metal off and check for the dog.

Yeah I had the motor phases and encoder cable off for the turret. I had to remove them to replace the servo. I took a picture and made a map before I took the wires off and made triple sure they were connected properly.

I also checked the motor with a megger and they were fine.

It's just a small plate in the cast iron.
No sheetmetal.


----------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ok looks like I was incorrect, Hardinge indicated that the turret has absolute encoders.

so this is the process for absolute.

I am assuming the switches are set properly as set. Need to find out if k10.3 is off or on. Not sure how I can complete 3 if the turret servos off prior to rotating.

4.1 MAIN TURRET (ABSOLUTE ENCODER)
1]. NOTE: (If Ballscrew Sub-Spindle, Turn K10.3 OFF)
2]. Set Turret Proximity Switches (See The Run And Adjust Final Assembly Instructions
For This Process)
3]. Rotate Top Plate To The Highest Station (10 or 12)
4]. Press SYSTEM Hard key
5]. Press PMC Soft Key
6]. Press PMCPRM Soft Key
7]. Press DATA Soft Key
8]. Press GDATA Soft Key
9]. Press 308 then SRCH soft key
10]. Input 10 or 12 (Highest Station)
11]. Change Parameter 1815 A (APZ)= 1 (Was Previously Set To 0)
12]. Power Down Control
13]. Re-initialize Control
14]. Press SYSTEM Hard key
15]. Press DGNOS Soft Key
16]. Press 300 NO SRCH
17]. Rotate Top Plate Thru All Stations (Check Numbers In 300 A, If Any Number Is
Larger Than ± 30, Adjust As Follows:
18]. Enter The Largest Value Obtained In 300 A Into 1240 A
19]. Power Down Control, Then reinitialize
20]. Re-check 300 A Again

That info that Hardinge is giving you is just for setting the home position. It won't help you with your alarm. You said your drive is giving you an overcurrent alarm? Did you try moving the turret manually like I suggested above? If there's no mechanical binding in the turret, and your wiring and motor are all good, then I'm thinking your replacement drive is bad. I don't know what else it could be.

You said you checked the motor with a megger. Did you check the motor power cable as well?

WMPY, I will try and rotate the turret like you were talking about. I can get the turret unclamped but it doesn't rotate freely by hand, does the servo hold it in place? Do I get it to unclamp and power down?

I checked the motor through the power cables at the servo drive. They were in the 1500-2000 Mohm range at 1000V.

msoden said:

No I haven't got it going yet, just getting back to it today.

I replaced the x/turret servo amp according to the tags above the unit. The x-functionality seems to be ok but the turret is giving me trouble.

When I attempt to home the turret as described above, or do any sort of turret move I get a #8 error on the drive. It does start to move out but then errors.

As far as absolute vs incremental. I think I have incremental on all axis's. not sure if they mix and match but param 1815 is all zeros.

I reached out to Hardinge and they were helpful. Sent me a test and a machine setup procedure. The test:

"Power down complete.

Wait 30 seconds.

Power back up.

Leave the estop mushroom button pressed in.

Hold in on estop reset.

While holding press turret index.

See if the turret moves out.

If not check power to the turret raise lower valve.



If it raises out reset up turret home per attached."


The turret does move out so I guess its onto the setup procedure.



MAIN TURRET (NON-ABSOLUTE “A OR B” CONTROL)
1]. NOTE: (If Ballscrew Sub-Spindle, Turn K10.3 OFF)
2]. Set Turret Proximity Switches (See The Run And Adjust Final Assembly Instructions
For This Process)
3]. Adjust Decel Dog Until Decel Switch LED Just Goes Out
4]. Zero Return Turret:
5]. In Zero return Mode, Press BLK-SKIP, Turret Will Raise Then Press And
Hold ZERO RETURN And TURRET Buttons, It Will Zero Return. If The Turret
Does Not Line Up With Station #1, Move The Decel Dog Around And Find The Spot
Where The Line Is Closest To Lining Up.
6]. (Zero Return The Turret Each Time You Move The Decel Dog.)
7]. Press SYSTEM Hard Key
8]. Press DGNOS Soft Key
9]. Input 301, Press NO-SCH Key
10]. Press REPEAT MODE
11]. Press PROGRAM 1 & 2 To Move The Turret And Line Up To Station #1
12]. When Station #1 Is Lined-up, Press REPEAT MODE,
13]. Press BLK-SKIP (Turret Should Sit Down)
14]. Record The Number In 301A
15]. If The Turret Was Moved Clockwise To Line Up Station #1, Take The Number From
301A And Input This Number In Parameter 1850A
OR-
If The Turret Was Moved Counter clockwise To Line Up Station #1, Take The Number
From 301A And Subtract 360000 From It.(It Should Be Negative). Input This Number
In Parameter 1850A
16]. Power Down Control Then Re-Initialize.
17]. Re-Zero The Turret
18]. Make Sure Turret Sits Down
(If Turret Does Not Sit Down Repeat Steps 3 - 17)
19]. Press SYSTEM Hard Key
20]. Press DGNOS Soft Key
21]. Input 300, Press NO-SCH Key
22]. Check Number In 300A.
23]. Rotate The Turret Through All Stations And Find The Highest Number.
24]. Take The Opposite Of The Highest Number Found, And Add This Number To The
Number Already In Parameter 1850A.
25]. Power Down Control Then Re-Initialize.
26]. Re-Zero The Turret
27]. Repeat Step 21 (The Number Should Be ± 30 Counts)
(If The Number Is Not ± 30 Counts Repeat Steps 22-26)
28]. Lock Down Set Screws On Decel Dog.

Oh boy

Click to expand...

If you aint got no 1's in the APC column of 1815, you aint got no ABS encoders anywhere.

How about param 4077?
IDK about this machine, but that typically goes for turrets.
I am guessing that the value in 4077 is the count that it is s'posed to go after seeing the cam prox drop out, but IDK that fer sure...
I have just adj that by simply loosening and adjusting the cam it'self, so ...


I totally redid my turret. Whole diff arangement, diff motor, did gear ratio, the whole werks.
I never set any HOME position.

When you initiate a TURRET HOME, the turret should lift and index + direction until it comes around to prox station 12 (10?) and then it should see the cam bump and slow way down, until it does NOT see it anymore, and then it should stop and seat on POS 1.

It's really that simple....

... and we're sure that you're not getting the same alarms as you had prior to replacing the amp?

X and Z doo in fact HOME fine you say?

Doo you have the turret alarm at full reboot?
(Power off at case level - not just turn off the control)

How long have you had this machine?
It sounds like you are a little green on how it werks?


Again - still ass_u_ming that all things the same as a "51" machine. (?)


---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

You can't just grab the turret and turn it even with the power off because it is driven by a worm gear that makes it difficult to "back-drive". So, pop the turret out, power down (hopefully it stays popped out), and turn it via the worm which you can access by removing the small round cover on the bottom of the turret.

Still, I don't understand how anything mechanical could be wrong if the turret was working fine before replacing the drive. I'm suggesting you check it basically just to rule it out.

Doo you know the code to lift the turret?

On the Quest machines Keep Relay 0 B2 = 1 will lift all turrets.
Not sure if that werks on the older Conquest machines as well or not?
(never tried it)


... Well, I guess I could go try it ....


edit:

OK, no - one of mine is already a 1 when running, so ...






---------------

I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

I will have to check on some of those items...

Prior to replacing the drive I was getting a #1 error on the drive and only when powering up the control immediately after powering on the main machine power. If I left the machine powered on for a while (left it for half hour or so) then booted the control I didn't have the error. No problems whatsoever with the turret. Once booted no issues. Fanuc advised me drive failure, forum browsing suggested the capacitors going bad. Also backed up with ability to boot without error after soak with main power on.

New drive doesn't have the #1 error no matter how fast I boot after main power applied. X seems to move correctly and I can do the zero routine, I haven't done the grid shift with a guage block off the spindle to set the new home position yet, got stuck on this turret problem.

I have had the machine for about a year, yes I am new to it so I appreciate all the help climbing the learning curve.