Heidenhain/blum tool touch off alternative idea...

BRIAN.T · Jan 31, 2020

Im the only guy who sets up our 5 axis mills, I've got one guy on my night crew who might need to change a tool from time to time.... I worry.

It's occurred to me rather then have him touch off tools using Blum cycle 584, I can switch him to 583 with the check function enabled. This would only update the DL wear column for the new tool, the tool length would not change from what I had previously. If I set the wear tolerance to +/- .030 that would give him enough margin of error for his new tool, while still preserving the collision checked master have length I've established. If he stick out more of less then .030 the tool will automatically lock, and he would have to try again. Anyone see any reason why this wouldn't work?

gkoenig · Jan 31, 2020

Yea, that is a super nice hack. It would probably work...

But it is a bandaid you're putting on top of a fundamental problem - why are you entrusting 5 axis work to someone who you don't trust to have the ability to swap out a tool properly? What is going on with the shop process where there aren't better ways to poke yoke a critical process like this?

BRIAN.T · Jan 31, 2020

gkoenig said:
Yea, that is a super nice hack. It would probably work...

But it is a bandaid you're putting on top of a fundamental problem - why are you entrusting 5 axis work to someone who you don't trust to have the ability to swap out a tool properly? What is going on with the shop process where there aren't better ways to poke yoke a critical process like this?

That's a great question. Thanks. The answer comes down to the skills gap, I can't find anyone in my area, it's damn hard to find anyone better than basic operator. What else do you recommend as a fail safe? I could in theory have a backup set of tools ready for him, but that's a pain in the ass.

gkoenig · Feb 1, 2020

BRIAN.T said:
That's a great question. Thanks. The answer comes down to the skills gap, I can't find anyone in my area, it's damn hard to find anyone better than basic operator. What else do you recommend as a fail safe? I could in theory have a backup set of tools ready for him, but that's a pain in the ass.

Fixed length stops in the tool-holders would probably be the most reliable short term answer. Still touch everything off, but eliminates the screw up of setting tools too short.

Longer term? The unfortunate answer is that growth in this industry requires hiring for intelligence/responsibility first, and having processes and training so dialed in that you can get those folks functional and reliable very very quickly. It is a combination of mentorship, documentation, process design, shop layout... basically all the lean bullshit. Everyone is struggling to find high-quality and knowledgable folks; the most viable answer is to make them yourself.

Mike1974 · Feb 1, 2020

Has "our trade" gone so far downhill we can't get people that can set a tool? Yes it has unfortunately

A week or so ago, long time employee at the shop I work at had a problem with his part. Said the height was off. I went out and checked everything over (G code and offsets), long story short, his tool offset was off by .012", not sure how as we have a tool probe and spindle probe... :nutter:

Mike1974 · Feb 1, 2020

A little OT from the thread. If there is such a shortage of quality machinist types, why is the pay so damn low still? :angry:

(Not aimed at OP, don't know him or his business) I see these rants here all the time about not being able to find people and such, but yet the Craigslist ads are filled with $15/hr "machinist" positions.... ya ok if you are a button pusher maybe *sorry, ranting done for a bit*

BRIAN.T · Feb 1, 2020

Mike1974 said:
A little OT from the thread. If there is such a shortage of quality machinist types, why is the pay so damn low still?

(Not aimed at OP, don't know him or his business) I see these rants here all the time about not being able to find people and such, but yet the Craigslist ads are filled with $15/hr "machinist" positions.... ya ok if you are a button pusher maybe *sorry, ranting done for a bit*

Yeah I find that no matter how well I've got something dialed in an idiot proofed someone always finds a way to prove me wrong. It's not really to say that people are idiots, but we all make mistakes, I do to... Very rarely, but it happens. That's why I like the idea of the machine checking things out for me. How your guy probed something wrong is amazing to me. Likely he forgot to actually touch off? I've seen that before.

As for pay, I feel like my area pays well, im in Los Angeles, sure there are huge companies that hire exclusively from staffing agencies at $15 an hour. But there are far more shops willing to pay for good people.

SpeedsandFeeds · Feb 1, 2020

You could always make a program with the Blum cycle already embedded in the program. Thats what I usually do for my night guy. Have you thought about setting up sister tools? I set up a repeat job that I know the exact number of parts I can get out of the tools. Once those tools hit the part count they are disabled and on to the next sister tool.

BRIAN.T · Feb 1, 2020

SpeedsandFeeds said:
You could always make a program with the Blum cycle already embedded in the program. Thats what I usually do for my night guy.

You mean a cycle to check the tool length each time the program runs? I've thought of that, assuming we're talking about the same thing. The reason I don't like it is time, my parts generally run for 15-45 minutes. Not super complicated parts, so to touch off or check maybe 15 tools each time the program runs is a very time consuming process.

SpeedsandFeeds · Feb 1, 2020

No. If he needs to change a tool and measure it, he can run a separate program to measure just that particular tool with your Blum cycle already filled out with your measuring parameters.

-Have you thought about setting up sister tools? I set up a repeat job that I know the exact number of parts I can get out of the tools. Once those tools hit the part count they are disabled and on to the next sister tool.

BRIAN.T · Feb 1, 2020

SpeedsandFeeds said:
No. If he needs to change a tool and measure it, he can run a separate program to measure just that particular tool with your Blum cycle already filled out with your measuring parameters.

-Have you thought about setting up sister tools? I set up a repeat job that I know the exact number of parts I can get out of the tools. Once those tools hit the part count they are disabled and on to the next sister tool.

Oh yeah, that's essentially what I'm doing... Perhaps. My MDI program is a step by step program for what he needs to do with notes and directions. He doesn't need to do anything other than put the tool in the holder correctly. I definitely don't want him actively switching running programs, that's bad news waiting to happen.

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