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Help Choosing a 5 Axis Milling Vise Loadout

KevintheCrawdad

Plastic
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Hello all,

The shop I work for recently procured a new machine, a DMG Mori DMU65 MonoBLOCK, and I've been saddled with putting together a cost comparison sheet for a 5 axis vise setup. I've surfed around the web, and unsurprisingly have found a bajillion different options. We will need a the vise itself, a riser, and any other accessories required. So to begin with please respond with the following: What brand of vise do you use? What are your likes/ dislikes? What peripheral accessories does it require/ or are recommended? What was the price paid for said equipment? Any other commentary is more than welcome as well. If it helps, my C axis rotary table is equipped with a subplate (10mm Shoulder bolt in 50mm spaced grid), and I have access to Big Kaiser Zero Point fixturing standoffs that make use of the 50mm spaced subplate. Unsurprisingly, this vise will be used for smaller parts in need of 5 side/ continuous 5 axis processes. Also feel free to comment with any additional questions that will help clarify anything. Thanks a bunch!
 
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here are a few risers we built ourself we bought 5th axis vises they are self centering but if you are probing everything they don’t need to be self centering orange vise has a better set up cheaper also. If you don’t stay centered on the 5 th axis vises they cock out of square pretty easy.
Don


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
We have a smaller machine...Hurco VM10Ui with a 7.8" platter so it was a big pain figuring out what fixturing to go with. In the end we settled on Raptor Workholding and 5th Axis vises....if I could do it again I would buy a bigger machine! That is the biggest limitation we face with it, we have to be really cognizant of the height of the setup especially when profiling at A-90 because I can run out of Y axis travel easily.

I would ideally have a Rock Lock 5th axis system in place for quick changeover. Highly recommend getting a Zero Point mounting system especially becuase you have a big machine to fit one. Maybe the Schunk Vero system? Not sure what your budget is.

Our 5th Axis 100mm vise was....$1300? Something like that, not cheap whatsoever. Raptor Workholding dovetails range between like $500-2000+ and youll want a handful of them to start out. I would budget like $10K to really get a good setup for the Monoblock (if you can!)

I made a universal adapting plate so that I can use both Raptor and 5th axis on the same subplate. Saves alot of setup time. Whatever way you go, you want to avoid setup time. A zero point system acheives this, especially if you have a "hard datum"...as in your G54 offset is always in the same place. Thus, you never need to probe your parts. Now, if you do this, your programs have to know this otherwise you are in for some nice crashes. You need everyone on the same page with that method, from programmer to button pusher, they all need the same information.

It isn't that hard to make a Raptor style dovetail clamp from scratch. It probably won't be as nice but I have done it for an in between dovetail size that they don't stock.

I am actually interested in this "Get a Grip" business because of how low profile it is Get-A-Grip – AMT Innovations, Inc.
Looks like a nice solution.

On the whole, in my 5 axis machining experience, gripping the part from underneath is the best approach (for us...). This may differ depending on what type of workpieces you have, but for us, having open access all 5 (and sometimes the 6th side) of the part is absolutely necessary. Not having to worry about hitting your fixture is nice when programming the damn thing. Thus, dovetails are ideal for this. The Get a Grip system is modular enough to run 2 or 3 of them in order to clamp large blocks. A single dovetail has tremendous clamping and holding power. I ran a 12"x5"x5" block of material on our tiny 1.5" Raptor dovetail clamp and it was solid. Very solid. 5 axis fixturing takes creativity and a different approach than you initially think.

EDIT: when you say small parts...are you planning to set up a 5 axis tombstone thing to run multiple parts in one go? the 5th axis pyramid with their dovetails seems ideal for this.

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we have about a dozen orange delta iv vises with risers we make ourselves depending on the job. fantastic vises for the money.
 
here are a few risers we built ourself we bought 5th axis vises they are self centering but if you are probing everything they don’t need to be self centering orange vise has a better set up cheaper also. If you don’t stay centered on the 5 th axis vises they cock out of square pretty easy.
Don


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What makes you say the orange centering vises are better? We have lots of the 5th Axis ones, and haven't had issues. we also have a 4 sided tombstone with 4 of the 6inch Orange Vises. While I think the vises themselves are a great piece of equipment, I'm not sure I love them for a horizontal setup. They have some limitaitons in that arrangement, in my opinion.
 
What makes you say the orange centering vises are better? We have lots of the 5th Axis ones, and haven't had issues. we also have a 4 sided tombstone with 4 of the 6inch Orange Vises. While I think the vises themselves are a great piece of equipment, I'm not sure I love them for a horizontal setup. They have some limitaitons in that arrangement, in my opinion.

less jaw lift with orange delta4 vises than 5th.
 
less jaw lift with orange delta4 vises than 5th.

Are you using the ball lock, or delta zero system for yours? If we didn't have so many 5th axis components in house already, I'd push harder for them. However I will definitely pick up a couple to use on our tombstone that is fitted with ball lock receivers.
 
Are you using the ball lock, or delta zero system for yours? If we didn't have so many 5th axis components in house already, I'd push harder for them. However I will definitely pick up a couple to use on our tombstone that is fitted with ball lock receivers.

ball locks for now.
 
ball locks for now.

Cool. I'm not sure how I feel about the Delta Zero system. I know pullstuds are a proven, common thing, but I'm not sure how I feel about a SINGLE pullstud, as well as clamping that pullstud with a set-screw. I think I'll stick with the ball lock stuff for now.
 
Cool. I'm not sure how I feel about the Delta Zero system. I know pullstuds are a proven, common thing, but I'm not sure how I feel about a SINGLE pullstud, as well as clamping that pullstud with a set-screw. I think I'll stick with the ball lock stuff for now.

i got quite a few friends that use the ZPS without any issues, i wouldnt hesistate to use it, just doesnt quite work for my current setup.
 
5TH Axis changed their vises recently, they redesigned them and are supposedly better than the model that I bought.
The one we have has massive jaw lift and parts vibrate and chatter like crazy.
The new redesign takes care of that (supposedly, we haven't bought one yet).

But I just made my own jaws and have a larger dovetail (1/4") that is closer to the vise body.
It's rock solid now and we just made some 6x6x6" blocks from 17-7 H900 with zero issues.
 
5TH Axis changed their vises recently, they redesigned them and are supposedly better than the model that I bought.
The one we have has massive jaw lift and parts vibrate and chatter like crazy.
The new redesign takes care of that (supposedly, we haven't bought one yet).

But I just made my own jaws and have a larger dovetail (1/4") that is closer to the vise body.
It's rock solid now and we just made some 6x6x6" blocks from 17-7 H900 with zero issues.

Interesting to hear that. I know we have some jaw lift, but nothing massive, and we don't do much finish work in them anyways. We do however do some pretty serious Ti roughing with a 2.5in, 8 tooth high feed mill and they sound great.
 
Interesting to hear that. I know we have some jaw lift, but nothing massive, and we don't do much finish work in them anyways. We do however do some pretty serious Ti roughing with a 2.5in, 8 tooth high feed mill and they sound great.

Yes I haven't really had much issue with jaw lift on my older style 5th axis vise. By the redesign it looks much better for jaw lift (not that I have issues with the old one). If anything the jaws are lifting like less than a thousandth which is nothing for us.

I like the dovelock mechanism of the orange vise. Another option to consider would be these guys. It looks like a very good product!

CNC Workholding Solutions — Mate Precision Technologies
 
5TH Axis changed their vises recently, they redesigned them and are supposedly better than the model that I bought.
The one we have has massive jaw lift and parts vibrate and chatter like crazy.
The new redesign takes care of that (supposedly, we haven't bought one yet).

But I just made my own jaws and have a larger dovetail (1/4") that is closer to the vise body.
It's rock solid now and we just made some 6x6x6" blocks from 17-7 H900 with zero issues.

Good to hear they changed. The original ones were shitty. So much so we trashed a few of their smaller models. Don't get me wrong, they made us money, but the fucking things got so bad with jaw lift after a few years they were scrap. We have since moved on to Schunk vises. Schunk compared to 5th axis vises are like comparing a Chinese Kurt knockoff to a Orange vise. Yes, they are that much better. And no, I won't be buying the 5th axis stuff again.
 
We have 5th Axis vises and Schunk Vero zero point. I like the Schunk zero point and the 5th axis vises are...... fine. When I needed another one I bought a Schunk vise and will do that as the 5th Axis vises need replacing. Although I did look at the vises from Mate the other day, and they are really impressive looking.
 








 
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