help getting started with first CNC

WylieC · Mar 13, 2019

Anyone able to give some advice on the best machine type and mfg to start with.

I know it is a vague question but, I am just starting to do some research on what to start with.

Any suggestions on where to start.

Parts that I make vary drastically so I understand I have to decide whether it would be turning or milling.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

WC

Guest · Mar 13, 2019

You need to at least narrow it down somewhat, materials, sizes, features, etc. From your description you could be making anything from watch parts to drive shafts for aircraft carriers. Also what is your budget $5,000 or $5,000,000?

michiganbuck · Mar 13, 2019

Guess (part) size matters so likely start with that..
With the CNC running you can run a manual machine..what process turning or milling can you walk away for to change/load a CNC part. What do you have the most one-ups and few-ups?
Yes once you go CNC the work load may change...

CNC School, Mississauga | iMTT Institute of Machine Tool Technology

WylieC · Apr 3, 2019

most of the parts that I make (at this point) are designed in house and are smaller parts made of steel and aluminum. The part configurations change quite a bit but mostly small brackets within a 16" cube. Flat and curved surfaces with lots of holes for alignment/dowel pins and lots of holes that have to drilled and tapped in varying sizes. Long term I want to be able to machine longer straight edges - maybe up to 10ft(i understand that would require a different and more expensive machine).

All thoughts welcome!

WC

DMF_TomB · Apr 3, 2019

WylieC said:
Anyone able to give some advice on the best machine type and mfg to start with.

I know it is a vague question but, I am just starting to do some research on what to start with.

Any suggestions on where to start.

Parts that I make vary drastically so I understand I have to decide whether it would be turning or milling.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

WC

.
many shops start with Prototrak mills and lathes. they can be used manually or in cnc mode or a combination.
.
Prototrak mill thats on a Bridgeport type turret knee mill are often easily found on used machinery stores and web postings in the $5000 to $10,000 range. going to weigh over a ton. just saying it aint something you pickup and throw in the back of a 1/2 ton pickup truck

EnginCycles · Apr 3, 2019

WylieC said:
mostly small brackets within a 16" cube.

You know a 16" cube is a huge part right? A part sitting 16" off the table even without anything below it is still a huge machine. I assume you mean 16x16x?? and that number is not 16. Again 16x16 is still really large. That is not going in a vise and is beyond many basic machines Y axis if you need to get beyond the edges with anything.

You don't need help you need google and hit the search button. When you have an understanding of restrictions on what machine do then you can narrow it down.

I am picturing you thinking this is how it all works ( I wish I made it but it is not my video):

mmc engineer (@mmc_engineer) • Instagram photos and videos

WylieC · Apr 4, 2019

DMF_TomB said:
.
many shops start with Prototrak mills and lathes. they can be used manually or in cnc mode or a combination.
.
Prototrak mill thats on a Bridgeport type turret knee mill are often easily found on used machinery stores and web postings in the $5000 to $10,000 range. going to weigh over a ton. just saying it aint something you pickup and throw in the back of a 1/2 ton pickup truck

Ok thanks, I'll look into the prototrak mills and lathes. Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated!!

aj · Apr 4, 2019

EnginCycles said:
I am picturing you thinking this is how it all works ( I wish I made it but it is not my video)

The owner here compares it to a video game. "If you push the right buttons in the right order, parts come out".

DMF_TomB · Apr 4, 2019

WylieC said:
Ok thanks, I'll look into the prototrak mills and lathes. Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated!!

in manual mode you can turn cranks and on the mills you are actually turning the screws and can feel resistance. some lathes have electronic knobs that is you turn a crank but its electronic you can feel no cutting resistance and often go by the sound cutter makes.
.
a big cnc you turn in handle mode the electronic knobs you can be putting tons on a part. a prototrak mill often the 2 axis version you position drill the X and Y location and use your hand on quil crank to drill holes in Z feeling resistance. if you are in position drill mode and force turn the X or Y cranks when you let go they will return to programmed position its like magnetic springs holding position.
.
so Prototrak being able to go manual or cnc or a combination of the 2 modes many beginners like that.hard to describe. full cnc mode you got to know feeds and speeds and depth and width of cuts a lot more to calculate.

WylieC · Apr 4, 2019

DMF_TomB said:
in manual mode you can turn cranks and on the mills you are actually turning the screws and can feel resistance. some lathes have electronic knobs that is you turn a crank but its electronic you can feel no cutting resistance and often go by the sound cutter makes.
.
a big cnc you turn in handle mode the electronic knobs you can be putting tons on a part. a prototrak mill often the 2 axis version you position drill the X and Y location and use your hand on quil crank to drill holes in Z feeling resistance. if you are in position drill mode and force turn the X or Y cranks when you let go they will return to programmed position its like magnetic springs holding position.
.
so Prototrak being able to go manual or cnc or a combination of the 2 modes many beginners like that.hard to describe. full cnc mode you got to know feeds and speeds and depth and width of cuts a lot more to calculate.

Thanks "DMF_TomB" for the feedback.

Looking at a 2 axis bridgeport - specs below: looks in good shape but thought is sounds a little on the expensive side. what do you think its worth?

Specification:
Table Size: 9" x 48"
Longitudinal Travel: 30"
Cross Saddle Travel: 12"
Vertical Knee Travel: 16"
Spindle Speeds (Infinitely Variable): 60 - 4200 RPM
Spindle Nose: R-8
Spindle Quill Travel: 5"
Spindle Quill Feeds (3): 0.006" / 0.003" / 0.0015"
Ram Travel: 12"
Motor HP: 2

Equipped With
SWI ProtoTrak MX2 2-Axis CNC Control
3-Axis Digital Readout
Lube System
Power Quill Feed

thanks for your feedback

sinistermachine · Apr 5, 2019

If your parts are the 16"x16" cube that you were talking about then you couldn't really machine it on that machine. Do you have pictures of what you actually want to make? Your description is like going to a car dealer and saying you are looking for a truck to haul stuff and he shows your a Ford ranger because you want to haul stuff and in reality you need a semi. Any suggestions right now are just going to be off the cuff and will most likely not be what you need.

Cwalster · Apr 5, 2019

When I hear the word "Bracket" I tend to think of sheet metal work, not machining. Especially given your size range. The only thing that makes me think its a machining operation is the mention of tapping. Nothing you've said tells me that a lathe is the right tool.

More detail is required. What are these brackets used for? What are they made out of?

16" Y is a good sized machine. 10' X is almost certainly a massive bridge mill, and your going deep into six figure territory.

WylieC · Apr 6, 2019

Cwalster said:
When I hear the word "Bracket" I tend to think of sheet metal work, not machining. Especially given your size range. The only thing that makes me think its a machining operation is the mention of tapping. Nothing you've said tells me that a lathe is the right tool.

More detail is required. What are these brackets used for? What are they made out of?

16" Y is a good sized machine. 10' X is almost certainly a massive bridge mill, and your going deep into six figure territory.

I know its a wide open question. Lathe - I am going to wait on for now. Mill - I realize I won't be able to do everything I need at this point but just want to make the right choice on what I purchase.

Hope the image attached properly (new to this forum). The image should show a bracket that I designed and had outsourced last year. Its aluminum and approx. 8" x 10" x 3". Required some lathe work and some mill work. I want to start to do this stuff in house. The stuff I build varies based on my customers application. I am basically just looking for some advice on machines - what to watch out for etc.

DouglasJRizzo · Apr 7, 2019

WylieC said:
Any suggestions on where to start.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

WC

My suggestion would be a VMC. Machining center jobs usually outnumber turning center jobs. There's lots more to do on a vertical and even some turn jobs can be done on them.

Stick with machines/controls that are either current production or made from easily sourced parts. Most Japanese and Korean builders use very similar construction and parts and they are easily sourced. For controls, Fanuc/Mits/Siemens/Heidenhain are the mainstays.

I started with a VMC. Always had work for it.

kazlx · Apr 8, 2019

WylieC said:
I know its a wide open question. Lathe - I am going to wait on for now. Mill - I realize I won't be able to do everything I need at this point but just want to make the right choice on what I purchase. View attachment 253896 Hope the image attached properly (new to this forum). The image should show a bracket that I designed and had outsourced last year. Its aluminum and approx. 8" x 10" x 3". Required some lathe work and some mill work. I want to start to do this stuff in house. The stuff I build varies based on my customers application. I am basically just looking for some advice on machines - what to watch out for etc.

That part is 100% a mill part. Buy a clean, used Fadal and get to work. I may be a little biased. There'a lot of machines that could make that, but you definitely need a full size VMC, flood coolant, tool changer, etc. Otherwise, IMO, you're wasting your time and should continue to just outsource them.

Hazzert · Apr 8, 2019

kazlx said:
That part is 100% a mill part. Buy a clean, used Fadal and get to work. I may be a little biased. There'a lot of machines that could make that, but you definitely need a full size VMC, flood coolant, tool changer, etc. Otherwise, IMO, you're wasting your time and should continue to just outsource them.

Does anyone else really want to see the lathe op on that one?

Finegrain · Apr 8, 2019

WylieC said:
I know its a wide open question. Lathe - I am going to wait on for now. Mill - I realize I won't be able to do everything I need at this point but just want to make the right choice on what I purchase. View attachment 253896 Hope the image attached properly (new to this forum). The image should show a bracket that I designed and had outsourced last year. Its aluminum and approx. 8" x 10" x 3". Required some lathe work and some mill work. I want to start to do this stuff in house. The stuff I build varies based on my customers application. I am basically just looking for some advice on machines - what to watch out for etc.

Good part for a 4 or 5 axis machine, if quantities justify. Otherwise you have lots of messing about with big fixtures to get all the features lined up. But, that is a very expensive machine if you were to buy one to make these yourself. At a minimum you will want an enclosed proper VMC with a toolchanger and copious flood coolant.

Regards.

Mike

BRIAN.T · Apr 9, 2019

There is an old expression, something like "I could make a lathe if I only had a mill." Which is to say lathes are great at making what they make. But a mill can make anything, including what can be made on a lathe. So definitely ABSOLUTELY buy a mill. As for brand I would probably look for a Haas, not because I like them, in fact I don't like them. But they have about 60 percent market share which means there are so many out there you can't help but find a good deal, plus they are easy to use and everyone knows how to use them.

help getting started with first CNC

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