High Performance Ball Endmills - Inch Sizes - +/-.0002 Radii
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  1. #1
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    Default High Performance Ball Endmills - Inch Sizes - +/-.0002 Radii

    Before someone starts off with "Just buy metric" . I have a shop with 22 machines and probably 2000 holders. 300 of them are custom made extended HSK63 for doing surfacing work. I don't want to buy Metric tools and mix them into the chaos .

    It seems all companies stateside have a +.000 -.002 Tolerance on their ball endmill radii. We are doing a ton of very critical surfacing parts and its super annoying to have to check every ball endmill before you load it (we don't have a presetter). Impossible to hold +/-.001 or +/-.002 on 5 axis surfaces when your 3/8 ball that is supposed to have a .1875 radius is actually a .1865 and sometimes they aren't even perfectly tangent so when you are using different portions of the ball tilted over get different radii.

    I want to place a big order and just stock 4 different diameters in 3 flute configurations for this type of work.

    Can anyone make any suggestions of where to look?
    Commonly cutting Aluminum, Titanium, Stainless

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    Which brand are you currently using? ATI Tool in Wisconsin might be able to help or possibly Helical Solutions in Maine.

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    Ive tried Destiny , Helical, Fraisa. All the same for their ball endmill tolerances.

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    Have you looked at Kyocera Microtool in California? Only smaller size tools but I really like them. I have to admit, I have never heard of what you are saying about the radius, not sure if they try to beat that or not.

    Charles

    Ok just checked and they are partners or owned by SGS? When did I go to sleep and let this happen?

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Before someone starts off with "Just buy metric" . I have a shop with 22 machines and probably 2000 holders. 300 of them are custom made extended HSK63 for doing surfacing work. I don't want to buy Metric tools and mix them into the chaos .

    It seems all companies stateside have a +.000 -.002 Tolerance on their ball endmill radii. We are doing a ton of very critical surfacing parts and its super annoying to have to check every ball endmill before you load it (we don't have a presetter). Impossible to hold +/-.001 or +/-.002 on 5 axis surfaces when your 3/8 ball that is supposed to have a .1875 radius is actually a .1865 and sometimes they aren't even perfectly tangent so when you are using different portions of the ball tilted over get different radii.

    I want to place a big order and just stock 4 different diameters in 3 flute configurations for this type of work.

    Can anyone make any suggestions of where to look?
    Commonly cutting Aluminum, Titanium, Stainless
    Fraisa holds super tight tolerances on their tools, you know this! :P

    edit: have you talked to doug about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    Fraisa holds super tight tolerances on their tools, you know this! :P

    edit: have you talked to doug about this?
    Not to put words in his mouth but he did say in a reply that he had checked with Fraisa. Do you know something different about them?

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Have you looked at Kyocera Microtool in California? Only smaller size tools but I really like them. I have to admit, I have never heard of what you are saying about the radius, not sure if they try to beat that or not.

    Charles

    Ok just checked and they are partners or owned by SGS? When did I go to sleep and let this happen?

    Charles
    It's the other way round - here's the press release from 2016:

    KYOCERA to Acquire 100% Ownership of U.S.-based Solid Tool Manufacturer; Acquisition of SGS Tool Company to enable total solutions provision for further expansion of cutting tool business | News Releases | KYOCERA

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    I'm sure AB Tools can do a lot better than .002.

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    Could you use a old optical comparator to check the radi when they come in.
    Don


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Just would rather get some premium tools so when one of my guys changes a tool at 7pm after I’m gone we don’t have to scrap a part that ran for 8 hours because the part is over / undersize. If I could start over and go back 10 years I’d probably have switched to metric for this high end style work

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Have you looked at Kyocera Microtool in California? Only smaller size tools but I really like them. I have to admit, I have never heard of what you are saying about the radius, not sure if they try to beat that or not.

    Charles

    Ok just checked and they are partners or owned by SGS? When did I go to sleep and let this happen?

    Charles
    You wouldn’t ever notice unless you were doing mold style work or 5 axis if the radius was .001 off

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Just would rather get some premium tools so when one of my guys changes a tool at 7pm after I’m gone we don’t have to scrap a part that ran for 8 hours because the part is over / undersize. If I could start over and go back 10 years I’d probably have switched to metric for this high end style work
    are you all shrink holders? that would suck to switch over to metric

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Ive tried Destiny , Helical, Fraisa. All the same for their ball endmill tolerances.
    I was just looking at this the other day. The Fraisa Sphero-XF series in metric are toleranced to 0.005mm. They are available in inch sizes (X5820432 is a 3/8”), do they not hold the same tolerance in inch?! I’d probably try AB Tools next.

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    Not an easy change at your size, but I switched all our ball endmills over to metric about a year ago and haven't looked back.

    Metric holders are a PITA to get in the US, but the tooling options are infinitely better.

    I would seriously consider just buying holders as needed and phasing out the imperial stuff. Good endmills are not cheap, and if you can get 25% more performance out of a tool, it only takes a few of them to offset the cost of the holder.

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    I treat inch and metric sizes as just additional sizes, much like you stock drills in letters, numbers, and fractions. Ok, now add metric drills, and you have four sets of drills instead of three. I'll mix inch and metric cutters in the same programs, and stock them right next to each other. The 3mm endmill is the next size down from the 1/8, then the .100" is the next down from that. If you have holders for 1/8" and 1/4", would you balk at adding holders for 3/16? If not, then you shouldn't balk at adding holders for the metric sizes too.

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    I think you may find that straight flute ball nose endmills will have a better "true to form" radius than helix types.
    I have no idea why metric would be better than inch as both on the same machines.

    Tighter than +/-.001 is going to put you into specials and not catalog items.
    Same with the radius on any carbide insert and way more than +/.001 is allowed on the most common inserts.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I have no idea why metric would be better than inch as both on the same machines.
    Way, way more options.

    Plus virtually all of the premium stuff is made in metric. The US market is pretty damn tiny compared to Asia and Europe. Many of the well established European and Japanese companies have no interest in carrying a line just for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Way, way more options.
    Plus virtually all of the premium stuff is made in metric. .
    So, I had no idea.
    Now your Walter, Anca, Ewag, Rollamatic, etc. grinding machines make a better tool in metric?
    Going to guess you also buy carbide insets in metric? Why the numbers so far off from actual?
    I do not think metric made better. The asked .0002 inch true to form is tough. Anyone who says other has no experience or the capability to measure.
    Worse yet on a helix as the flute tolerance and shape pucks with you as the intersection of the two must be perfect.
    We would all like +/- .0001 tools on roundout, rads, tip, lips, tangent.
    Making them not so easy.

    Here is my big bitch.
    People in the cad world expect perfect cutting tools and may give us a millionth or two.
    Now the purchasing side wants low price. These two expectations are often one person.
    As a tool supplier no win.

    I sure think a call to AB tools as said above a good idea. A member here and many advancements.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    So, I had no idea.
    Now your Walter, Anca, Ewag, Rollamatic, etc. grinding machines make a better tool in metric?
    Going to guess you also buy carbide insets in metric? Why the numbers so far off from actual?
    Bob
    Really? The part of my quote you cut off is that the premium companies are not motivated to make products in freedom units.

    If you want the best tooling available off the shelf, there are way more options in metric sizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Really? The part of my quote you cut off is that the premium companies are not motivated to make products in freedom units.

    If you want the best tooling available off the shelf, there are way more options in metric sizes.
    My bad and it is just someone from who knows poop.
    I surrendered and sure your shop can make what the op wants.
    Too me it is hard and tight . In your shop it must be easy on this grind and that makes you king of the hill and I bow.
    What I have to question is do you make or ever made this tool true to form at what the OP needs?
    My world maybe a tiny bit different.,

    Wee should not argue about such things .
    How to solve the problem and get the job done.
    All that matters is making good parts and shipping them.


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