High Performance Ball Endmills - Inch Sizes - +/-.0002 Radii - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I'd contact Sandvik or Guhring. If you tell them you want to buy a bunch I'm sure they'd make them for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 axis Fidia guy View Post
    Try these, I guarantee they will be accurate enough for your needs.

    http://www.fraisadirect.com/pdf_us/C5890.pdf
    These seem to be exactly what the OP is looking for. Unless they're hideously expensive or not "really" available, he may be set.

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    I believe OP is very familiar with Fraisa and is in contact with Doug, their US applications lead. I think he mentioned that he's already tried Fraisa's inch selection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Ive tried Destiny , Helical, Fraisa. All the same for their ball endmill tolerances.
    See above...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mutiny View Post
    I believe OP is very familiar with Fraisa and is in contact with Doug, their US applications lead. I think he mentioned that he's already tried Fraisa's inch selection.
    Fair call. But presumably Fraisa has "regular" ball endmills too, perhaps those were the ones he tried? IDK, maybe the claimed +/- 5u isn't?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Fair call. But presumably Fraisa has "regular" ball endmills too, perhaps those were the ones he tried? IDK, maybe the claimed +/- 5u isn't?
    I haven't actually found anywhere that Fraisa has a written tolerance for their inch lineup. Their metric Sphero-Alu (not to be confused with Sphericut-Alu) claims +/- 5um, but isn't available in inch sizes. The linked inch tools don't have a stated tolerance, unless I'm missing something.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Sales / Head applications guy at a huge precision tool MFG?
    That would seem important title.
    And when they loose that job they go into used car sales.
    I've been around the block.
    What makes no sense is a different tolerance spread for metric and inch.
    I have to scream no as loud as I can.
    Machine and process capability has no care about units of measure. What it can make is what it can make.
    If a supplier has different numbers I'd be wondering where and how the tools are made.
    Confusing.
    Bob

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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Before someone starts off with "Just buy metric" . I have a shop with 22 machines and probably 2000 holders. 300 of them are custom made extended HSK63 for doing surfacing work. I don't want to buy Metric tools and mix them into the chaos .

    It seems all companies stateside have a +.000 -.002 Tolerance on their ball endmill radii. We are doing a ton of very critical surfacing parts and its super annoying to have to check every ball endmill before you load it (we don't have a presetter). Impossible to hold +/-.001 or +/-.002 on 5 axis surfaces when your 3/8 ball that is supposed to have a .1875 radius is actually a .1865 and sometimes they aren't even perfectly tangent so when you are using different portions of the ball tilted over get different radii.

    I want to place a big order and just stock 4 different diameters in 3 flute configurations for this type of work.

    Can anyone make any suggestions of where to look?
    Commonly cutting Aluminum, Titanium, Stainless
    Look for manufacturers that have "Hard Milling" specialty lines, these are typically 2 flute endmills with a tighter tolerance on the bull/ball radius

    A search for Hard milling Endmill on google revealed these emuge endmills that claim +/- 0.0002 on the rad. There are a lot of similar Endmills out there.
    http://250.ef-catalogues.com/118/index.html

    You could also look into CBN endmills. Some of the guys who do hardened molds around here prefer them. They are very precise and don't wear as quickly as carbide. It often eliminates the need for a toolchange when finishing, meaning little to no hand polishing is required.

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    If you are going through a lot of endmills, maybe just add a presetter to your arsenal? That way you could keep using cheaper regular endmills but be able to adapt to the tolerance of them? Probably only practical if you have some type of control based 3d cutter comp

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mutiny View Post
    I haven't actually found anywhere that Fraisa has a written tolerance for their inch lineup. Their metric Sphero-Alu (not to be confused with Sphericut-Alu) claims +/- 5um, but isn't available in inch sizes. The linked inch tools don't have a stated tolerance, unless I'm missing something.

    I concede - I can't find an inch tolerance either.

    Sort of annoying, maybe they're trying to remind us that Imperial is out of fashion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 axis Fidia guy View Post
    Try these, I guarantee they will be accurate enough for your needs.

    http://www.fraisadirect.com/pdf_us/C5890.pdf
    Those are the older Sphericut-Alu series. The newer Sphero-Alu is “better,” but only in metric that I can find. I did an informal simple comparison - same toolholders, new endmills, same code - and got slightly nicer finishes out of the newer one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    That would seem important title.
    And when they loose that job they go into used car sales.
    I've been around the block.
    What makes no sense is a different tolerance spread for metric and inch.
    I have to scream no as loud as I can.
    Machine and process capability has no care about units of measure. What it can make is what it can make.
    If a supplier has different numbers I'd be wondering where and how the tools are made.
    Confusing.
    Bob
    Know of a dealership hiring?

    The differences come historically from how American manufacturers of tooling made ball end mills vs the Europeans and especially the Japanese. Inch vs metric isn’t the issue, it’s the different processes that these manufacturers used to manufacture and measure the tools that is the issue. Now some are getting better than others but there are still massive differences. Also, the “standards” for tolerances have been all over the place (ie ISO, ANSI, etc) so manufacturers hit different numbers. More recently, the ball nose market is now on a nominal standard with a +/- tolerance but that wasn’t always the case.

    Fraisa currently has three tolerance levels; +/-0.003 mm, +/-0.005 mm and ISO f8. The ISO standard are the old tools and those are being phased out.

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    Hang around and please comment some more, Sum Dum. It would be nice to have an endmill guru to go with our insert guru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sum_dum_apps_guy View Post
    ... it’s the different processes that these manufacturers used to manufacture and measure the tools that is the issue. Now some are getting better than others but there are still massive differences..
    Having been in shops Europe, Japan, China and USA I am confused.
    Are you telling me the Watler or Anca grinder cares about where it is located?
    Yes there good and bad shops. No doubt there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Having been in shops Europe, Japan, China and USA I am confused.
    Do you mean machine shops or tool grinding shops?

    The ball radius thing is similar to how a 0.5” square end mill isn’t actually 0.5”. In a lot of cases that applies to the ball unless you start with an oversized blank. Starting oversized so you can finish with a nominal size adds more work/cost so most manufacturers don’t do it. So that leads to a ball with a minus/minus tolerance from nominal, or a “football” shaped ball (see pics). Generally that is a small enough amount that it doesn’t matter in general machining. But plenty of shops do need extremely tight tolerance tools and that’s where the Japanese companies came in followed quickly by the Germans and Swiss. They started making their tooling on oversized blanks and used a different measuring technique. Once this became known, it spread in the industry and is becoming the “norm” but I still don’t know of many American manufacturers that do it this way. I’ve added these pics to show a measurement of the “old” way vs the new way. Both of these tools are considered “good” but the measurement technique and production method changes everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sum_dum_apps_guy View Post
    Do you mean machine shops or tool grinding shops?

    The ball radius thing is similar to how a 0.5” square end mill isn’t actually 0.5”. In a lot of cases that applies to the ball unless you start with an oversized blank. Starting oversized so you can finish with a nominal size adds more work/cost so most manufacturers don’t do it. So that leads to a ball with a minus/minus tolerance from nominal, or a “football” shaped ball (see pics). Generally that is a small enough amount that it doesn’t matter in general machining. But plenty of shops do need extremely tight tolerance tools and that’s where the Japanese companies came in followed quickly by the Germans and Swiss. They started making their tooling on oversized blanks and used a different measuring technique. Once this became known, it spread in the industry and is becoming the “norm” but I still don’t know of many American manufacturers that do it this way. I’ve added these pics to show a measurement of the “old” way vs the new way. Both of these tools are considered “good” but the measurement technique and production method changes everything.
    you sound an awful lot like a fella i know... :P

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  21. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Hang around and please comment some more, Sum Dum. It would be nice to have an endmill guru to go with our insert guru.
    Happy to help or answer questions if I can

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  23. #58
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    Hitachi has always been my goto when needing super tight tolerance on the radius dimensions

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    Super funny. I came here to see if anyone knew of a niche line of tools that held these style tools in Inch sizes and basically was told A. You are being lied two. B. Try all the tools I already mentioned in the first post lol

    Option C.
    Getting a quote from Fraisa on inch size tools on larger shanks
    1/4 ball on 3/8 shank for example and will put them in my tool crib stock.

    Maybe I should start up a web store of all the custom tools we have made and stock here. I'm sure people would buy the same things we use.

  25. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Maybe I should start up a web store of all the custom tools we have made and stock here. I'm sure people would buy the same things we use.
    Alternatively, your reluctance to use metric tools may the reason you have so many customs in the first place...

    I know, I know. Don't yell at me.

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