hmc 400mm what are my options

We are looking to purchase a 400mm horizontal machining center and are curious about our options. We have quotes from OKK, Doosan and Makino. The specifications are 60 tool changer mostly cutting aluminum and stainless steel. We would need the control to be Fanuc for consistency.

Everyone we talk to agrees the Makino is the best machine but we do not have plans to install a pallet line and are not sure if the additional $120K is worth it for us. We have a Daewoo 400 HMC (2001) now and find it is for the most part satisfactory for our needs.

Currently comparing
OKK HMC-400
Doosan NHP-4000 (brand new and worried about bugs)
Makino a51nx

all with 1000 psi coolant, 60 ATC

any advise in this situation would be very much appreciated!

How about looking at Matsuura and Kiwa?

Needshave said:

How about looking at Matsuura and Kiwa?

Click to expand...

do you have experience with either of these brands, our shop has not had either. currently we have dooson mills, but tend to question their quality.

i checked in the the Kiwa, it looks very much like an OKK. i will have to look for a dealer in the area.

big differences i am noticing is the drum tool changer verse the chain style, is the drum style much better? i also notice the center coolant chip conveyor, we have had issues with chip build up on our current causing binding of the covers, do others have this problem as well?

I have not worked on horizontals from these builders. If I were involved in the purchase of a horizontal I would give them a look. I work on Matsuura verticals. They are well built machines. Some have been running two shifts cutting 17-4 since 1995.

We have an a51nx. Beautiful machine. Drum changer is fast and RELIABLE.
I would recommend getting the pro6 control.
What exactly would you like to know?

is it really that much better than the other cheaper options. we will likely not install a pallet system so i have to questions if we will get everything out of the Makino or would we get almost as much out of the OKK or Doosan? have you had service issues with the machine? how long have you had the machine? what makes the pro 6 so good?

Weve had it about a year. The makino service has been quite good, and has only been needed once for a loose hydraulic line that was leaking into coolant.

Its the first horizontal i've ever touched, but it does exactly what you tell it to. Deep drilling on a horizontal is what they say it is....
The SGI functions are a great addition.

We do not have a pallet pool yet, and honestly, we dont need it.
I've done some contract work for a company with a few doosans, and they always seemed to have small issues cropping up Zero experience with OKK

Data centre and usability of the pro 5 and 6 controls makes it easy for most operators to take over with minimal training.

I suppose we should ask... what kind of work are you wanting to put through it?

aluminum and stainless steel. most parts about 100mm cube but we make a number of aluminum manifolds with deep bores. we have a daewoo hmc 400 now and are looking to expand and replace VMC. we have been quoted $315k for makino a51nx (60 act, part probe, laser tool set, HP coolant, mist collector). the same dooson is $240k and less for OKK (great deal). the dooson is very new, they have only made 60 of this new machine. the OKK has some of the same features has new machines but has a chain to changer while the dooson and the makino have the drum, this is a turn off. spec for spec the Makino is better all around.

is the makino 2gb of program storage that critical?
how good is the center chip conveyor?
do you use off line programming? currently we program at the machine. have you had Makino application engineers in for any optimization?


thanks for the feedback

That price for the OKK is a screaming deal, I have never owned one but always thought they were a very nice machine. I will be interested in the comments to follow.
Gary

update after 2 years

when we started up the machine we were not happy with the performance when we loaded in our old programs that used conventional tool paths. we had issues with surface finishes that we attributed to machine stiffness. we consulted several people (distibutor, other machine manufacturers, application engineers) and all recommended we changed to dynamic tool path programming. our distributor (Reynolds Machinery) was a massive help walking us through the process of changing programming, tool holders, and tooling. over the next year, we focused on improving tooling and programming on about 30-40 jobs. we have saved roughly 50-75% on cycle time for most jobs, this either means the machine is awesome or we were long overdue for improvements. i think it was some of both, high-pressure through-hole coolant is a must for drilling, horizontal chip extraction saves cutters, and hydraulic tool holds at high rpm is the only way to run.

as for the machine issues:
small coolant leak
issue with pallet locking pin binding up, warranty
setting for pallet rotation encoder compensation was incorrect, warranty

future plans, expand ATC to as much as possible and justify flexible pallet system.

Ummm.. I reckon an update should include what machine you bought.

Great point!!!! We purchased the OKK HMC-400