Tsugami problems

I know conventional cnc turning, but have no swiss exp. We have a problem in my dept with an iscar indexable cutoff tool burning up on a semi regular basis. The owner of the shop is the only one who can setup the tsugamis. Tired off replacing cutoff tools, I put an M00 before the cut-off, so operator could watch & feedhold if insert breaks. Noticed a large nest of chips often hanging on at this M00. Had operator remove nest before hitting cycle start again, no more broken cutoffs! Owner unhappy! Machine must run unattended! Need advice.

Heres what i can tell you, bearing in mind i dont know these machines at all. They run 6061 alum bars ground to .750 dia. the part gets an id bore around 1/2" and some id grooves, and an od profile that winds up kind of cone shaped, maybe 1-1/2" long. The part does get grabbed by a smaller sub spindle that finishes the back end. The owner tells me the nest of chips is coming from the boring bar, he cant get the chips to break, even tho he programs these choppy z axis moves pecking to try and break chips. One thing seems weird to me, but the owner tells me it has to be this way... The iscar cutoff tool isnt really cutting off, rather it just faces off the fresh bar end after each piece. I asked, couldnt we use a tool more designed for facing, like a tnmg or something? Owner says cant do it.

Does everyone really have to face off bar ends with a cutoff tool on tsugamis? And can anyone (swiss pro?) give me any other advice i might tactfully relay to the owner to steer him in the right direction to get this back to unattended profitability?

Thanks,
Tim
Lake county, illinois

Wow, dont everybody speak up at once, lol ((echo)) ((echo)) ((echo))

Just kidding, i realize its the weekend and some people actually stop thinking about work once in a while... I envy them...

Well I've read what you wrote and I can't see any Tsugami problem. I see a tooling problem, however I am having trouble trying to envision a part made on Swiss-style machine that doesn't need to be cutoff from the bar.

And yes, cutting off the part is, many times, good enough to act as the facing of the next part. I never cared for doing it that way as parting tools can wander a little bit. I'd almost always cutoff then face the next part with a CCMT or DCMT insert.

Sorry I can be of more help, but I lack the imagination to picture what you are trying to describe. It kind \of sounds like "the boss" knows what he's doing other than he hasn't found a good strategy for chip control in aluminum. Few of us do, and often have to turn to high-pressure coolant systems to try and get things clear of chips.

Thanks. What you described is about what i suggested. There is one cutoff tool which actually parts it from the bar stock, but then rather than a ccmt or something facing the bar, this second cutoff tool comes and does it. And thats what fails. I am trying to learn these as i go, but i have 6 other lathes to keep up with, so im not always able to get over there and watch him set it up. I shouldnt have called it a tsugami problem, but rather the way we are doing something needs to be improved.

Possibly one the Most qualified people to help you out is in tech support at Tsugami, in IL.
He posts here as SwissPro. Dan...
He had an article in the last few years in the Shop Doc column of the magazine... ?
About this very subject, or fairly similar, about chip management.

A quick Google search for "Shop Doc" and chips ....

Shop Doc

Texas Tim,
In your first post you stated that the chips are present before the cutoff and if cleared by the operator the cutoff works fine.... You later said that the issue is when the "second cutoff tool" comes in and faces the part? Seems confusing... What do you mean by "second cutoff tool"?? Where exactly are the chips coming from? It seems odd that the chips from boring op would end up wrapped around the od of part.. maybe they are coming from the od turn?

We have 2 Tsugami's in the shop and I for sure haven't used the cutoff tool to face the next part... Typically based on the description of your part I would process it as follows:
1-Face & chamfer od (turning tool)
2-ID work
3-Turn od
4-Then using the sub for support, the cutoff tool should come in and cutoff the part (99% of the time to the finished length) and stay in position (usually just past centerline) and this holds the bar during collet re-grip.

The boss says it "can't be done" but I find it hard to believe this to be true. Do you have high pressure coolant?? What model Tsugami are you running?

Glad to help, but need some more info.

The closest thing that I can imagine that he kant doo it that way would be b/c maybe he is using this second cut-off during the end qualification of a new bar. Not sure why two diff units, but ???


Not sure how I missed this thread till now. ???


-------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Texas Tim....
You said burning up and nest of chips? On 6061 Alum???? MORE speed and more feed. Then if you have the room for one more tool, then face the part. If no more tools...he is facing with the cutoff/there must be a reason for that......but all in all, it does not get any easier than 6061(manybe 360 brass) Dean

I'm having a hard time following the problem as well.

I don't know why you'd need to face with a cut off. You can usually use any tool geometry you want.

I also can't figure out how chips from the ID operation (boring bar) are getting wrapped on the OD.

I can see using an Iscar groove/turning tool if the whole OD profile can be cut with just the one tool. Maybe it's that style tool and not really a cut off?

Anyway, in aluminum, I've had good luck with these tools - TysonTool1's Channel - YouTube

You can buy them here - Tyson Tool Company Limited

You can always call us. We don't charge for phone support and are happy to help.

The only way it could get in the way of the cut-off is by using a goose-neck on the gang right? Use the sub spindle to bore using main&sub sync codes?