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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Moore View Post
    If you get a laser isn't it likely that you will have the same problem as the originals?

    You mentioned the type of laser you want to buy, is it significantly better than the laser that was used for these parts? (which you didn't mention)
    I'm not sure what type of laser was used but if done correctly I have found out that it can be done with the right laser and the right technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Almost my thought too, but I would use a .005" or so piano wire (if such a thing exists, hard stainless otherwise) and a diamond paste to suite (~8 or 10 micron). Put a short (1") section of wire in a sensitive drill chuck on a Bridgeport or good drill press.

    After fitting wire into hole part way (to prevent whipping), spin at ~3K, tab diamond paste onto wire at junction with part, then pulse sensitive chuck up and down to lap the hole. Change wire as needed, adjust micron size of diamond ditto, blah blah. Bob's your uncle (or was before the realignment surgery).

    Nice thing about this is that eye alignment by anyone with a bit of experience will be enough to keep the wire straight enough.
    Now that sounds like an old timers trick. I love it! I have sent the customer to another shop with equipment to do the job but I have a few broken ones I must try this on. I just love doing micro work and I have some piano wire thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pariel View Post
    I don't have any suggestions, but I feel your pain. We've been working with a bunch of AlO PCBs, which need a fairly precise hole in them, and we're having them laser cut and they come out looking like garbage. But it's good enough for what we're doing. So far.
    those I could machine all day 7 days a week without a problem. My biggest problem here is the material is a type of ceramic which takes either a diamond or laser to cut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Bridgeport ? Milland, shame shame ! You wrote '.005" wire' in that same sentence as Bridgeport ! That's the worst advice I've ever seen from you !

    One of those little Electro-Mechano high speed benchtop precision drill presses might make the job tolerable. Might even work. Otherwise I'll go Milland one better and suggest a 4" Lucas boring mill
    I have a good high speed machine. So I must agree with Milland on this one, because it is more about the material than the machine or the tool. Alumina is a very hard ceramic and about the only things you can cut it with is diamond or laser. Unfortunately they don't make anything quite that small (YET)!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    How thick are the wafers? I see you can get Alumina down to .1mm. I'd be trying to convince the customer to go Macor so they could be made with regular drills, but it only goes to .5mm (from Goodfellow via brief googling). More fun to get the fancy laser and make Marcus jealous though.
    Yea I think I'll tell him I got one even if I don't. Just to make him jealous.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Piffle. Bridgeports ARE small machines. Anything I can pick up and put in my pocket is small, and a BP qualifies. And I did mention using a sensitive chuck for the actual drive, did you not notice that? It has even more feel and less inertia than any small high speed drill press.
    I like using a good finger chuck for really small holes on a Bridgeport or any type of Micro manual drilling. including some of the high speed ones. I have made holes in both aluminum and plastic down to a #80 twice the depth of the flutes. When you are doing things like that, feel is everything. I'll take that Bridgeport anytime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skoobiz View Post
    Now that sounds like an old timers trick. I love it! I have sent the customer to another shop with equipment to do the job but I have a few broken ones I must try this on. I just love doing micro work and I have some piano wire thanks.
    Let us know how it works out for you. I still think a sensitive chuck is the way to go if you have one, but if you try the drill press be sure you can keep the wire at least partly in the hole at all times to minimize whipping. At that size if it leave the hole it'll fold over at the chuck and you'll either have to stop and reinsert or replace the wire if it's permanently bent.

    Perhaps a small secondary guide can be made to support the wire a little above the part, but that interferes with dabbing the abrasive. Larger wires will be self supporting depending on length.

    [At 61, am I an oldtimer? I might be...]

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    Hi Milland:
    At 61 you're younger than my baby sister!
    I envy you your youth and vigor!
    I, on the other hand, at 64 am frickin' ANCIENT.

    Back to the topic:
    Do you think lapping with an 0.005" wire will work, given that the wire will not be expandable like a barrel lap would be?
    I'd thought to make something like a fret saw frame for a diamond coated sawing wire and set it up in the VMC with a little program that will jog it up and down and circular interpolate without rotating the wire and saw frame.
    That way you could open it up much like a wire EDM works.
    I wonder if it would be a worthwhile thing to try or if it would just be a PITA.
    Obviously you'd still have to thread the wire into each hole and then chuck it in the frame, and you'd need to know the location of each hole...but theoretically???

    Here is a wire supplier I found with a 5 second Google search:

    Cheers

    Marcus
    www.implant-mechanix.com
    www.vancouverwireedm.com
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails diamond-wire.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by skoobiz View Post
    I like using a good finger chuck for really small holes on a Bridgeport or any type of Micro manual drilling. including some of the high speed ones. I have made holes in both aluminum and plastic down to a #80 twice the depth of the flutes. When you are doing things like that, feel is everything. I'll take that Bridgeport anytime.
    I know we are talking a little different things here, but that is only true with a manual machine. On a cnc, you need to know what the tool will do, and then program accordingly. We run .006-.01"end mills *frequently* enough I have the speeds/feeds/doc dialed in (for our needs, not saying it's perfect ) for all the little small tools.

    *Not alot-alot, usually cutting with 1/32" endmills, but we do use them enough I have parameters set pretty good for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi Milland:
    At 61 you're younger than my baby sister!
    I envy you your youth and vigor!
    I, on the other hand, at 64 am frickin' ANCIENT.
    64? I watched Logan's Run, I didn't think they let people get to that age...

    Back to the topic:
    Do you think lapping with an 0.005" wire will work, given that the wire will not be expandable like a barrel lap would be?
    I think so, as I'm not looking for an expansion, I'm "asking" the diamond to embed itself in the wire as it's dragged into the "funnel" of the tapered hole by the wire motion. The diamond and wire combo defines the final size, not a function of expanding a more traditional lap.

    I'd thought to make something like a fret saw frame for a diamond coated sawing wire and set it up in the VMC with a little program that will jog it up and down and circular interpolate without rotating the wire and saw frame.
    Heh, that would be entertaining to watch, trying to emulate a wire EDM through actual (not spark) erosion. It would be fun to try, but you'll spend some time figuring out optimal S&F for good geometry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I know we are talking a little different things here, but that is only true with a manual machine. On a cnc, you need to know what the tool will do, and then program accordingly. We run .006-.01"end mills *frequently* enough I have the speeds/feeds/doc dialed in (for our needs, not saying it's perfect ) for all the little small tools.

    *Not alot-alot, usually cutting with 1/32" endmills, but we do use them enough I have parameters set pretty good for them.
    Yes I am only talking about manual machines here. For my micro CNC work I use the Datron we have. I have actually done work on it with a .3mm end mill .75mm deep so I know where your coming from. If I remember correctly it was a part with a couple slots in it that were .55mm wide in Ultem.

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    Hi skoobiz:
    You run a Datron???
    Now you have to tell us all about that machine!

    There was a thread on here just recently in which all things Datron got a good trashing, but it all sounded a bit like hearsay to me.
    So...if you're willing, a consumer report from someone who actually owns one would be most welcome to hear.
    Perhaps a new thread??

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

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  17. #33
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    Will a "better" laser work?
    Particularly the rather expensive ones of this type :Picosecond lasers: the power of cold ablation
    and Femtosecond laser micromachining: A back-to-basics primer | Industrial Laser Solutions
    I know that they can make very nice finishing cuts and holes in PCD.
    Bob

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  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi skoobiz:
    You run a Datron???
    Now you have to tell us all about that machine!

    There was a thread on here just recently in which all things Datron got a good trashing, but it all sounded a bit like hearsay to me.
    So...if you're willing, a consumer report from someone who actually owns one would be most welcome to hear.
    Perhaps a new thread??

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
    I can say both good things, and bad things about Datron. I have the M7HP model, with a 60,000 rpm spindle. It is really great for doing what it was meant to do. You can push it to do some light SS machining, but what it excels at is micro plastics and aluminum machining. It is also great for things like pc boards and phenolics. One problem is you are limited on tooling because of the collet system it uses. I have also had a lot of trouble getting help from them in the past. They can be extremely slow to respond sometimes. Oh and don't let them tell you that you can cut titanium on it unless you like fire. Over all it's a pretty good machine. Oh and don't believe anything that the salesman tells you. They promised my brother all this work if we bought the machine. I'm still waiting lol. In actuality other than it having very good positioning, a router would have been just as good and a lot less expensive.

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    If you start from scratch, consider a printed circuit board drilling/routing machine. Pcb via's are in that diameter range. There are abrasive drills available for microfluidics and may be able to route the part profile or at least score it to break apart in a mini press break. This is assuming the appropriate laser is too expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Oops, those aren't daffodils ... what's that little white flower called ?
    Clover. I keep telling my lawn crew to stop spraying to kill off the clover in my yard, but they call it a "weed".

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    It will be cheaper and quicker to throw them in the bin and start again...

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by swood1 View Post
    It will be cheaper and quicker to throw them in the bin and start again...

    Steve
    Now that's the first sensible answer on this whole thread.

    About time ya'all started thinking in terms of manufacturing instead of reworking and jobbing.

    You can make a part for a cent but it takes 10 cents to rework it.

    BTW, why weren't these parts scrapped as rejects from the supplier due to not being to drawing tolerance?
    Ian.

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    Crabtree wrote:
    Now that's the first sensible answer on this whole thread.

    About time ya'all started thinking in terms of manufacturing instead of reworking and jobbing.

    You can make a part for a cent but it takes 10 cents to rework it.

    HEEEYYYY, I resemble that remark!
    Look back at the posts from #3 to #6.
    There was a pretty good consensus way back then that this was going to be a gnarly project not worth doing.

    So yeah, you'll get no argument from me about tipping these into the scrap bin.

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining


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