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How much bugs and faults should you accept on a brand new machine (Haas)?

Tjugo7

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Just how much bugs and fault should you accept on a brand new Haas machine?
The reason for asking is that I bought a brand new CM-1 that was delivered to me 2019-09-24 and still not working properly. It is the biggest investment my small company has done and it is a complete disaster. What I'm finally offered feels like a slap in the face...

/Staffan
 
How many doo you accept on your brand new car ?

This is a larger investment, and is not just for transportation, it is to make you money.
 
Please define *fault*.
List the lot of them?

Porobably fixed:
Dropping tools, happened twice.
Tool changer crashes, happened four times.
Run away z-axis, happened once.
All these faults has been intermitent and most likely software related.

Fixed:
Embedded 1mm endmill in the table from dropped tool.

Will be fixed:
Spindle damaged from repeated tool changer crashes.

Remaning:
Bad tool changes.
Large number of software bugs. Machine somtimes miss prob moves, fails to start up, user relays not reset, various smaller strange things.

/Staffan
 
this is what the delivery acceptance cert is for. You don't sign it until everything is 100%

In practice that was not so easy. Payment conditions was 30% up front, 60% 30 days from delivery and 10% 10 days from installaton. The faults showed up after a while and was of intermittent nature.

/Staffan
 
Perhaps a small scratch in the external paint. Everything else, including all functions must perform as advertised. If you're not getting legitimate problems fixed then you need the Swedish equivalent of a lawyer.

Runaways and toolchanger crashes are the worst. Get some good surveillance cameras that maintains a recording loop of decent duration, and set them to high resolution. At least one aimed at the screen (to record running code) and one aimed at the table/toolchanger. So three might be best.

Create a program that loops through the motions and circumstances that can lead to a fault, and run until you've captured evidence of it. Now you've got proof, along with the the loop program itself.

Go get those bastards. And tell Gene he must send you free tickets to the Dutch GP (if/when it ever happens) as part of the compensation!
 
This would be fun- I would lose my mind over this BS and end up in jail- seriously, I’d dump it in the salesman’s office- right thru the f’n window.
Be simpler for me, the HFO is 45 min away, I’d take the fork truck right up I91 :)




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6 month old machine.................under warranty. Tell them to talk it back...........Give you your money back or another machine with an EXTENDED WARRANTY. For any reason they "fix" this machine and you decided to keep it, demand an extended warranty.

You need to start talking to the Haas mother ship in CA. MAKE A LOT OF NOISE!!! Don't take no for an answer.
 
Perhaps a small scratch in the external paint. Everything else, including all functions must perform as advertised. If you're not getting legitimate problems fixed then you need the Swedish equivalent of a lawyer.

Runaways and toolchanger crashes are the worst. Get some good surveillance cameras that maintains a recording loop of decent duration, and set them to high resolution. At least one aimed at the screen (to record running code) and one aimed at the table/toolchanger. So three might be best.

Create a program that loops through the motions and circumstances that can lead to a fault, and run until you've captured evidence of it. Now you've got proof, along with the the loop program itself.

Go get those bastards. And tell Gene he must send you free tickets to the Dutch GP (if/when it ever happens) as part of the compensation!

There are proof, two of the tool changer crashes happened while techs worked on the machine.

/Staffan
 
It sounds like your local Haas dealer is completely incompetent!
I'd get in touch with Haas headquarters in California and let them know the situation.
 
So I just went to the Haas website to actually see what a CM-1 is...................holy crap! Base price is $60k? Sure they are on discount right now for $45k......................but wow.

Relatively new unit for Haas? Sounds like you got one outa the first run...................they must still be working out all the kinks and you are their guinea pig.............
 
I have been down your road with a Haas vf2ss and can throw some light on what your dealing with ,,, First off a Haas HFO is nothing more than a dealer for Haas,, As only being a dealer there only a middle man and they just buy the machine from Haas and have it shipped to you ,, when a warranty problem comes up like this there still only a dealer,, Haas does not pay there dealers to cover warranty repairs, They do cover some parts "SOME" times , but for the most part your dealer well get crappy support from Haas, Here in the US it seems most HFO ( DEALS) have a few guys that have been to Haas repair school for a few months and well they know how to swap parts they cant fix anything and can only swap parts.

So when you get into a problem like your having your trying to deal with the HFO that "CAN NOT FIX " software and all they can do is write it up and ship it to Haas and Haas well look into it when they get time.

To put in as nice as I can your barking up the wrong tree, Your HFO (dealer) can not fix your machine in that its a software thing and not something you can just swap out a part and fix, so you have two choices ..

Try and deal with Haas factory to fix it or make your HFO buy the machine back from you .. Bottom line is your HFO (dealer) was the one that sold you the machine and the one you need to go after, asking them the dealer to fix it when they cant well never work .

If I was you I would have never ordered a CM-1 to start with in that there not a big seller and not part of the factory's main product line ,, I have a shop full of Haas machines and for the most part have been happy with them, I would try and get your dealer to take back the CM-1 and swap it out for a VF or a DM mill ....
 
Porobably fixed:
Dropping tools, happened twice.
Tool changer crashes, happened four times.
Run away z-axis, happened once.
All these faults has been intermitent and most likely software related.

Fixed:
Embedded 1mm endmill in the table from dropped tool.

Will be fixed:
Spindle damaged from repeated tool changer crashes.

Remaning:
Bad tool changes.
Large number of software bugs. Machine somtimes miss prob moves, fails to start up, user relays not reset, various smaller strange things.

/Staffan


Nerdly of NERDLY "fame" had Z axis free fall plunge. (Trashing his knuckle trunnion unit.).

Eventually HAAS did replace the machine, but seems the replacement machine is not as accurate as the original "Unicorn" machine (the machines are graded). Nerdly was kinda "Miffed" about that as the dealer/ HFO can't close the gap on that.

Nerdly states that HAAS admitted it was a software glitch / problem.

However things being such as they are "Peeps" just throw rotten cabbage and tomatoes at Nerdly trying to make out that "HE" is the one that haas the problem.

@Tjugo7
If the control was not updated and had not received various firm ware and OS upgrades and fixes it could be that your control has an "Older bug". Like others are saying ...
 

Nerdly of NERDLY "fame" had Z axis free fall plunge. (Trashing his knuckle trunnion unit.).

Eventually HAAS did replace the machine, but seems the replacement machine is not as accurate as the original "Unicorn" machine (the machines are graded). Nerdly was kinda "Miffed" about that as the dealer/ HFO can't close the gap on that.

Nerdly states that HAAS admitted it was a software glitch / problem.

However things being such as they are "Peeps" just throw rotten cabbage and tomatoes at Nerdly trying to make out that "HE" is the one that haas the problem.

@Tjugo7
If the control was not updated and had not received various firm ware and OS upgrades and fixes it could be that your control has an "Older bug".

There have been in total five service calls. At the second visit the software was upgraded, at the third visit downgraded and at the fourth visit upgraded again. Different versions every time, now it runs on the fourth version of software. They clearly have software problems.

/Staffan
 








 
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