HSK holders

BRIAN.T · Jul 31, 2018

We have just purchased a new 5 axis mill, now it's time to get tooled up. Our new mill uses hsk holders (Mikron e 500 u). I need holders that are balanced to 20k, obviously not required for all of them but at least 10 I think. We we're looking at lyndex, which seem to be awesome, but purchasing 30 holders puts us well over our 20k budget. So I'm looking for suggestions for tool holders that are good, maybe not top of the line, but decent, and versatile. Maybe standard ER collets.

We machine alum and 1018, some stainless. We are a job shop, so we never really know what we are going to make, but rarely is surface finish a real issue, nor are we making anything tighter than .005. our mill is to cut down on standard 3 axis mill ops.

Hopefully that's enough info. Thanks

gkoenig · Jul 31, 2018

BRIAN.T said:
We we're looking at lyndex, which seem to be awesome, but purchasing 30 holders puts us well over our 20k budget.

Lyndex lists the price of a high speed HSK63A ER holder at ~$350. Seems like you could buy 30 of those and be at just over half your $20k budget...

BRIAN.T · Aug 1, 2018

gkoenig said:
Lyndex lists the price of a high speed HSK63A ER holder at ~$350. Seems like you could buy 30 of those and be at just over half your $20k budget...

For some yes, but not for the 20k rpm balanced holders. Some of those get to around 650, plus $60 per collet and coolant tubes. or we can go shrink fit, but then we need the initial $10,000 for their shrink fit rig.

And truth be told ide like to spend less then 20.

gkoenig · Aug 1, 2018

BRIAN.T said:
For some yes, but not for the 20k rpm balanced holders. Some of those get to around 650, plus $60 per collet and coolant tubes. or we can go shrink fit, but then we need the initial $10,000 for their shrink fit rig.

And truth be told ide like to spend less then 20.

Induction Heat Machine for Shrink Fit Tools MariTool

Buy that and go shrink fit!

lastrada · Aug 1, 2018

BRIAN.T said:
or we can go shrink fit

Go shrink fit, it would be a no-brainer with a new 5 axis. We use to use MST slimline system. Worked great for us. They have a modular system that is interchangeable so it might cut down on your cost.

Tool Holding - MST Slimline System | Single Source Technologies

JMC · Aug 1, 2018

I use a bunch of Pioneer holders in a BT40. Balanced to 20K. Have had zero issues with them at that RPM.
They do make HSK holders also, might be worth checking out.

007Rob · Aug 1, 2018

We're using Iscar shrink and ER holders on our Mikron in HSK40.

Using the Iscar "Shrinkin" heater to change tools on the shrink stuff, it's pretty affordable but it doesn't work the greatest on bigger tools (by bigger I mean like .375") usually have to help it out a bit with a propane torch.

ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - SHRINKIN UNIT V2 : 454928 - SHRINKIN UNIT V2 EUR

We did get a pretty good discount on list price for buying all the holders at once, I think they might offer a package for tooling up a machine or something like that.

pirko · Aug 4, 2018

The Question isn’t simply. Balancing is depending on heavy the spindle, heavy the tool, dimension the tool, RPM and more. Look on ISO EU1940 Standard for right balancing. Best Regards Libor

Dave Cross · Aug 4, 2018

We use the MST two piece shrink system, and a MST shrink machine. The two piece system is really nice, as the "collets" (not really collets, but solid body heat shrink adapters) are relatively cheap, so when you break a tool you only have to replace the collet instead of the entire holder like you often do with most single piece designs.

If you had the need for an HSK spindle I can't understand why you would want to use ER collets? Even top shelf ER collets suck for run out and rigidity.

BRIAN.T · Aug 5, 2018

Dave Cross said:
We use the MST two piece shrink system, and a MST shrink machine. The two piece system is really nice, as the "collets" (not really collets, but solid body heat shrink adapters) are relatively cheap, so when you break a tool you only have to replace the collet instead of the entire holder like you often do with most single piece designs.

If you had the need for an HSK spindle I can't understand why you would want to use ER collets? Even top shelf ER collets suck for run out and rigidity.

Thanks for the info, truth be told we didnt need an HSK spindle at all, but the price was too great to pass up. We will get into more advanced tool holders, and a shrink fit system will be happening as our shop takes on more complicated parts. But for now we are going to be making the same old parts weve always made, just more efficiently. We are dealing with +/- .005 at most an a surface finish requirement of "make it look ok" . When the time comes to start making better parts ill use the ER holders for drills and taps.

Dave Cross · Aug 5, 2018

If you are doing +/- .005" then ER collets will be great. I don't have any experience with makes of HSK ER holders, but I'd bet Lyndex, command, hpi etc have them.

DanielG · Aug 5, 2018

I've used quite a few Schunk Tribos HSK toolholders for drilling. They also make ER collet chucks and face mill arbors.

broke · Aug 6, 2018

You'll want the best clearance options you can get which will be shrink fit.

I am suppressed to hear that the HSK holders would be $650 for a 20k holder. Isn't the entire purpose of the HSK spindle and holders to be for running at the high spindle speeds?

Mike1974 · Aug 6, 2018

As an aside, HSK requires a tool to always be in the spindle, or the Mazaks I seen did. Anyone know if this is true of all HSK spindles? Just something to be aware of if you come from running CAT or BT machines...

Danny VanVoorn · Aug 6, 2018

Don't have any suggestion for tool brand but think the balance is as much for spindle bearing life as it is for finish on the work? The spindles we had with HSK tapers cost a fortune for a rebuilt from Fisher and new was better than that. Usually a crash caused the problem but I'm in the camp that thinks an out of balance would create problems also. I did notice that the rebuilt spindles never lasted like the original.
Point I'm trying to make is it doesn't seem to make sense to cheap out on tooling. Buy once and forget it, buy twice and regret it comes to mind.
Dan

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