Hydraulic tool holders, what are you using these days?

I am making some upgrades for my Mazak horizontal and it is time to try some hydraulic holders for end mills. There are many offerings but I am having a hard time making a decision. I want them for 3/8 - 3/4 end mills. The machine is a Mazak PFH-4800 with a 15,000 RPM spindle.

So what are you guys using? I expect to pay a fair amount for them but reasonably priced with good performance is what I desire.

The machine has a recently rebuilt spindle with great runout and I want to get the best surface finish by reducing run-out and improving balance.

In the next couple weeks the machine is getting a new Z ballscrew, thrust bearings of course, Y linear guides plus a bunch of other things. I am also switching to Mastercam 2017 and taking a 3 day class to hopefully improve some skills and efficiency on the machine. I am trying to bring the machine back to near new accuracy and performance. Many other things have been replaced in recent years. New tooling is just one more way to get there.

I am making a bunch of upgrades here right now. Nothing like pouring money into a marginal business.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Dan

hy

let me do a bit of advanced math : 3/8 .. 3/4 = 9.5 .. 19 mm

now lets check the taper : on google i found this : Mazak PFH-48 CNC Horizontal Machining Center - Machining Centers Horizontal CNC Ref# 26685 - (i) - Prestige Equipment

thus cat40@12k rpm

flange : 63mm

so, you may push tools arround 3/8, and you should take it easy with tools arround 3/4

my literature/documents are in metric, so i can not suggest sharp right now

please, consider some market research :
... not all hydra holders have same length, so please look for shorter ones, thus to have some rigidity, even if this may mean that you have to raise your vice
... not all hydra holders with same gabarit/dimensions deliver same torque, so please consider comparing this values from different vendors; some holders may deliver a grip >= shrink fit machines
... if possible, consider reduction sleeves; i will write an example, so to be more clear : hydra holders are on specific diameters, and the inbetewen dimensions are handled by reduction sleeves; a tool gripped direclty inside a hydra holder is gripped with less grip than same tool gripped inside a biggger holder, but with a reduction sleeve ... check this numbers this is not always true, because sleeves are acting more rigid when their inner diameter is bigger
... such toolholders require more caution; they work nice, but they are sensitive : you may not encounter problems when working, but when changing tools :
...... if tool is clamped direclty inside the holder, than all is ok as long as the tail is cilindrical, thus no weldon or you_know_what_i_mean
...... if tool is clamped with a reduction sleeve, than some swarf may enter inside the collet grooves : this phenomen has effects that are increased with the number of grooves, and with the type of grooves; when it happens, it makes it hard to take the sleeve out, and during this process you may harm the membrane : please consider sealed colets, so to protect the holder : thus spindle is more important than holder, which is more important than sleeve, which is more important than tool, which may be more important than the part that you craft please consider that sleeve are standard regarding external diameter tolerance, while their lenght may vary ... please look for such sealed sleeves, and after that buy a holder that can contain them
...... same stuff may appear on new holders : because of tight tolerances, the sleeve may be crafted toward maximal value, and the holder may be crafted towards minimal value, and chamfer may be low class quality : in this case you may not put the sleve inside the holder, or, even more, the sleeve will not slide continuous until it reaches the holder bottom
...... thus, please consider a good inspection when buying new holders, and please consider smooth tool changes, so to protect the holders, thus achieveing a longer life
... some holders may have inside a tool stop screw ... carefull with it, not to unscrew during machining; also this may lead to a false safety feeling, making you believe that the sleeve has reached the bottom of the holder, while in reality this did not happen; i simply take those screws out, so i dont use them
... craft an caliber arbor, thus to check the quality of a new holder, only by sliding it inside by hand ... slide must be smooth an try to keep these surface quality by prevention
... torque wrench

---

i am not sure, but i think that i found sealed sleeves at Kemmler; peripheral coolant sleeves at RegoFix

i use hydra holders from Seco and Schunk

do you wish for a sharper recomandation ? please share your spindle taper and i will do my best kindly !

I am a Schunk fan, they have several series, you might be of interest with the "economical" series, same tolerance, and quality, only they are made from a lesser grade material. It will save you a few hundred bucks.

Look into Schunk Sino-R - they were very high end when I bought them. They are NOT hydraulic - there is no oil in them. Rather, there is a, oh, call it plastic, that is claimed to give good properties. You might think about rego-fix mechanical shrink as well.

(Do you want "hydraulic" literally, for some reason? Or you want better centering/runout/balanced tool holders? You know the Sino-R's and hydraulics can have a long gauge length, right? I exploit that, but if you don't need it, it's less than optimal.)

Good luck

Thanks for the input guys. I went ahead and bought an assortment of Schunk Tendo Platinum and E-compacts. They even have a 3/4" with a 24.6mm gage length, now that is stubby. With my standard MSC discount the E-compacts were just $159. Mostly I bought Platinums for their balance specs for smaller cutters. I will try out a couple of them and if I don't like them will return the others.

A friend of mine has Schunks and is pleased I just wanted further input.

I am sure these will be a nice upgrade compared to side lock or ER 32 collets. I am trying to get better finishes at faster feeds by reducing runout. I use mostly YG1 3 flute aluminum end mills because they consistently leave great finishes plus my local distributor has great prices and stock on hand. About 95% of what I run is aluminum.

Thanks again for the input guys. I am having fun doing upgrades all over the shop right now.

Dan

I think you will happy but be sure to post back and let us know.
Too often people find a solution but do not let us hear about it.
You posted now you have to tell us about the secret sauce if it works....

CarbideBob said:

I think you will happy but be sure to post back and let us know.
Too often people find a solution but do not let us hear about it.
You posted now you have to tell us about the secret sauce if it works....

Click to expand...

Any feedback on these now that you some time to put them through their paces?

I do this all the time and I feel your doing this too. Where I get an idea of what I want or a specific product in my head and all my research only validates my choice rather than looking for what is the best option out there.