I have a chance to pick up a used Hardinge Conquest T-42
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  1. #1
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    Default I have a chance to pick up a used Hardinge Conquest T-42

    Guys,

    I have a chance to pick up a Conquest T-42. It has live tools, plenty of live holders and other tooling. This was not a job shop machine and was well taken care of. It's a 1998 machine and I can get it cheep. I could use a back up machine of this size and have always loved Hardinge.

    Please fill me in I am limited on Hardinge CNC machines other than the CHNC's. Is it worth a few grand ? Anything I should know or be thinking about ?

    Thanks

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron

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    Go git'r.

    The "T" with the 18T control is a really nice machine.


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  3. #3
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    Without seeing it in person and in excellent condition I would think that machine would have a value of about $18,000 to $25,000.

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    Just wanting to learn something.
    Ron mentioned that this machine was "not a job shop" unit.
    Off hand I would think that a machine not running 24-7 would be a bonus. Perhaps not?
    Is there something about a job shop machine that turns some away from purchasing?

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueler View Post
    Just wanting to learn something.
    Ron mentioned that this machine was "not a job shop" unit.
    Off hand I would think that a machine not running 24-7 would be a bonus. Perhaps not?
    Is there something about a job shop machine that turns some away from purchasing?
    He could have meant it was used for R & D and prototype work. Some job shops run the machines longer and harder than some OEMs. I worked for an OEM in the 80's that dedicated a lot of machines to a product line and they could sit unused for months at a time if there was plenty of inventory.

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    I don't know exactly what he means by Job Shop as compared to a Production Shop or R&D, but my T51 has 1.38 million parts on the counter.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueler View Post
    Just wanting to learn something.
    Ron mentioned that this machine was "not a job shop" unit.
    Off hand I would think that a machine not running 24-7 would be a bonus. Perhaps not?
    Is there something about a job shop machine that turns some away from purchasing?
    I own a job shop. My lathes run everything and anything that comes in the door and we run them pretty hard. They are not abused but we have worked on the edge. Being a small shop never having enough help our machines preventive maintenance is non existent and issues are sometimes neglected until a failure occurs.I know more than a few Job Shop owners in the same boat, not a great way to operate but it's reality for me right now.

    With this in mind to me a job shop machine could have been owned by a guy like me working his tail off waiting for it to brake before it gets fixed.

    That's what I was thinking about when I said Job Shop machine

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron

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    From my experience of buying used CNC’s over the years, shops both large and small do a piss-poor job of taking care of their machines.

    It seems the mantra is to run them like hell, with preventative maintenance and basic cleaning and care essentially being non-existent.

    It’s just apathy, laziness, and incompetence if you ask me...

    Not here at the Cat House though. Once I go through a machine cleaning and adjusting and repairing and whatever else, we try our best to actually take care of the machines. And we don’t push them to the breaking point!

    It’s never ceased to amaze me how people will abuse and neglect the very machines they are depending on for a livelihood.

    ToolCat

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    It all depends on the shop it came from. I would say a job shop has the most risk of having had crashed the machine. Production situations are usually better from that standpoint, in that there are far fewer setups being done, and if they are a good shop have good programmers, trained setup people, and have worked the bugs out of their setup procedures. I don't care where the machine was used, I can guarantee you that it wasn't used to its full potential, so I wouldn't worry about it having been beat on. My experience in the machine tool world is that any quality machine can be run at "100%" (more likely less than 25% of its capability) day in day out and not have major issues as a result of "running parts". They run into early trouble when way covers, lube lines, and way gibs / truck wipers aren't regularly maintained. Or a crash of any size that big enough to cause dimensional/alignment change. Beyond that, there should be very little maintenance needed. Occasionally you will need bearing rebuilds for your live tooling units, and the turret will likely need a little maintenance from time to time, but that is usually mainly just o-rings and seals, and cleaning as a result of coolant geting places it shouldn't be.

    My experience with the Hardinge lathes is that they are great machines, albeit it's been 12-15 years since I was working with them, overall still I would say go for it. They used to make and still do make some of the best headstocks in the industry. FWIW, any company that is as versed and positively regarded in grinding and hard turning as Hardinge is no doubt is capable and does make machines which are an order of magnitude better than much of the competition. Are they powerful workhorses like Okuma, and Mori, maybe not, are they as accurate and trouble free when maintained properly, definitely. Oh and most importantly, being a US company, the maintenance procedures are easier to follow and the documentation is what I used to consider gold standard. It was my benchmark for years, and sadly disappointed me when I started working with Japanese machines and their lack of clear english procedures, such as Hardinge used to put out. They have gotten better over the years, but are still lacking.

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    The T42 is a US machine - built in Elmyra NY.

    As far as crashes go - the X and Z axis on that machine should have break-away units.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Will a 98 have the newer turret index drivetrain with the belt directly on the turret spindle? Looks like a more robust design.
    In any case I would want to see the turret positioning error, The Curvic coupling price from Hardinge has exploded for these older machines.
    And they are known to be a trouble spot.

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    I would be interested in any of the tooling blocks if you get the machine and decide you don't need any of them

  15. #13
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    ?


    --------------------

    Got Ice?
    Ox


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