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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    G8KeaPoR,

    If you still have the broken retention knob please send it to us. We would like to send it to our heat treater for a full analysis. It certainly looks like a clear case of just too much load, but I also like to look at faulures regardles. Also include your contact information and we will send you a replacement free of charge and a coupon for your next order. Hopefully that helps soften the blow to your pocketbook.

    Was that our tool holder or someone elses? If it was ours let me know the part number and we will warantee that as well.
    Frank that is awesome and I really appreciate that. Especially since I am positive I over loaded it. Yes it was one of your tool holders. I will send you a PM with all my info and the order number from when I purchased it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I found one of the brass slugs I used to lap with and I believe my machine did use BT-30's. I scrapped the machine and do not need it, let me know, just in case I will send you a private message. If interested I just want postage, unless of course we are neighbors. I will send a PM also.
    Assuming your location is correct I'm thinking we're like 30 mins out from each other. I'll send you a PM!

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    It must be the month. After 14 months, I too took out my speedio spindle. Face milling some aluminum when the part was undersized and the part pulled up out of the vise and jammed in. Lifted part about 1/4", broke an insert, broke the pull stud, buggered the hell out of my spindle taper.

    Had it reground in place. It isn't 100% any more. It works but it's sound changed a bit. I just received my replacement spindle from Yamazen but I am going to just set that gem on the shelf and see how long this original works out.

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    I'm pretty sure this is why I never got the fuzzies about all the claims of 30 taper beating 40taper machines in heavy roughing applications...

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    Absolutely call and get a quote to regrind it in place. I did it for 25 years. Literally thousands of time. Easily 90% of the time we fixed as good or better than new. If the bearings got dinged, then regrinding is not an option. But otherwise it's a great option. Cheaper and usually faster.

    Rocky Spindle Grinding Service Inc (retired)

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  8. #26
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    I just broke an m6 tap in 7075. I'm still learning. I think I should go mild steel speed not 6061 speed in 7075. Maybe I'll retire the pull stud for good measure. Good luck getting back up to speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    I just broke an m6 tap in 7075. I'm still learning. I think I should go mild steel speed not 6061 speed in 7075. Maybe I'll retire the pull stud for good measure. Good luck getting back up to speed.
    I think your tap must have slipped in the collet. An M6 even in 7075 should be no big deal. Assuming of course good drilled hole, no chips packing, good tap and good coolant. Tap slippage is a deal breaker. Are you using G77 Synchronized tapping? M6 x 1 thread will be I1.0. Example:
    G77 X_ Y_ Z-.350 R.05 I1.0 S6000

    UN threads use J for TPI instead of the I for metric.

  10. #28
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    yup, not in the shop but something like:

    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth1 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth2 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth3 I1.0 S2000

    I'm just reading there's a Q value for peck I can use maybe instead of multiple lines. I'm hand coding these as my post processor doesn't play nice yet.

    holder was ER16 with 7mm collet, all Maritool stuff. Tap was new Widia GTD from mcmaster. Hole was 5.0, new parabolic drill. 16mm deep, thru.

    I don't have tap collets yet (looking forward to it as I feel like an idiot hunched inside of my new Speedio using it as a tap guide). I was thinking as 7075 has the yield strength of steel, I should try 1000 rpm.

    I heard some crunching and stopped it. I haven't inspected the collet yet. Seems unlikely, but I suppose it could have stressed the pull stud.

    Flood coolant is BLASOCUT BC940.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    yup, not in the shop but something like:

    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth1 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth2 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X..Y..Z.. R.. depth3 I1.0 S2000

    I'm just reading there's a Q value for peck I can use maybe instead of multiple lines. I'm hand coding these as my post processor doesn't play nice yet.

    holder was ER16 with 7mm collet, all Maritool stuff. Tap was new Widia GTD from mcmaster. Hole was 5.0, new parabolic drill. 16mm deep, thru.

    I don't have tap collets yet (looking forward to it as I feel like an idiot hunched inside of my new Speedio using it as a tap guide). I was thinking as 7075 has the yield strength of steel, I should try 1000 rpm.

    I heard some crunching and stopped it. I haven't inspected the collet yet. Seems unlikely, but I suppose it could have stressed the pull stud.

    Flood coolant is BLASOCUT BC940.
    Yes. Use the Q for pecking if you must. Unless you M19 before all of those individual cycles, the starting point will change each time throwing off the synchronization. Also the ER16 with a standard 7mm collet is suspect. Do you have anything stronger such as ER20, ER25 or ER32 till you get ER16 tap collets? Also there are two different peck options, G77 with Q will do a chip breaker and G277 with Q will do a 'deep hole' full retract between pecks. With the right set up you can tap that at 6000 rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Yes. Use the Q for pecking if you must. Unless you M19 before all of those individual cycles, the starting point will change each time throwing off the synchronization. Also the ER16 with a standard 7mm collet is suspect. Do you have anything stronger such as ER20, ER25 or ER32 till you get ER16 tap collets? Also there are two different peck options, G77 with Q will do a chip breaker and G277 with Q will do a 'deep hole' full retract between pecks. With the right set up you can tap that at 6000 rpm.
    I do have ER25 and ER32. I didn't realize you needed the M19. I had not though of the ER16 being a grip issue. Some of the WTD taps I got have a really short shank too. I'm looking at the Techniks ER rigid tap collets (metric). What taps do you like, OSG?

    I have 150 M4 holes coming up so I might as well get the collets on order (going to try form tap on that one). Thanks for the help.

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    OSG taps have been at or near the top of my list for a long time. Be sure the tap is spec'd for aluminum. Proper coating (if coated). Be sure your coolant ratio is good. I've been tapping M8, M6, and M4 in 7075 and 6061 without issues on Brother mills. RPM 2K-3K, using HoCut 795. (I'm a chicken)

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    An M6 tap will not slip in an ER16 collet. M8 or larger in some high alloy stuff, maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    An M6 tap will not slip in an ER16 collet. M8 or larger in some high alloy stuff, maybe.
    Frank, in an earlier thread on a broken BT30 pull stud I asked about the possibility of making a "super premium" stud from some high-end steel, perhaps with as large a stem diameter as the specs will allow. Was that ever something you looked into, or is the best bet doing like Tony and setting up a replacement schedule?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockyr49 View Post
    Absolutely call and get a quote to regrind it in place. I did it for 25 years. Literally thousands of time. Easily 90% of the time we fixed as good or better than new. If the bearings got dinged, then regrinding is not an option. But otherwise it's a great option. Cheaper and usually faster.

    Rocky Spindle Grinding Service Inc (retired)
    For machine shop supplies and service this area is no man's land, a service call from a CNC tech is usually north of $1,000 and that includes no time. To top it off most of them aren't very good either.

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    I used to make this HAAS retention knob years back. Used hundreds back in my old job before MariTool. Never had any failures. Started selling it on MariTool and everyone complained about it. " looks different", " will it hurt my spindle", " I want the normal stud". I pulled it from the website. I will admit I did have pictures and a brief description about the " high strength feature" but it was not labeled as such. So I think lots of cutsomers were caught by surprise. In the future I may bring it back but also have the standard available so people can pick.

    img_3125.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    An M6 tap will not slip in an ER16 collet. M8 or larger in some high alloy stuff, maybe.
    Holding a .255 shank tap in a .276 ER16 collet is hardly ideal. If it is a .255
    bore tap collet I say ok. Why shouldn't he use something with more grip like his ER25 or ER32 if he doesn't have the proper collet for his ER16?

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    Thats why we have 64'th sizes. 17/64.

    ER16 COLLET 17/64 MariTool

    Nothing against using a ER25 or ER32. But not needed, ER16 is perfectly fine for M6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    I used to make this HAAS retention knob years back. Used hundreds back in my old job before MariTool. Never had any failures. Started selling it on MariTool and everyone complained about it. " looks different", " will it hurt my spindle", " I want the normal stud". I pulled it from the website. I will admit I did have pictures and a brief description about the " high strength feature" but it was not labeled as such. So I think lots of cutsomers were caught by surprise. In the future I may bring it back but also have the standard available so people can pick.

    img_3125.jpg
    Perhaps you could work with Brother to come up with a "super taper" stud that would have a short relief for retention, but be larger in the area of greatest flex/fatigue. Seems there's a need for something better...

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  24. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Holding a .255 shank tap in a .276 ER16 collet is hardly ideal. If it is a .255
    bore tap collet I say ok. Why shouldn't he use something with more grip like his ER25 or ER32 if he doesn't have the proper collet for his ER16?
    I thought they were good down 1mm from nominal? Yes, 6.5mm shank, 7.0mm "regular" collet. I tighten them down pretty good although I don't have a torque wrench adaptor yet.


    (TAP M6)
    G54
    G100 T76 X75.806 Y-6.245 G43 Z42.368 H76 D76 S2000 M03

    G17
    G00 X75.806 Y-6.245
    G00 Z42.368
    G00 Z32.368
    G77 X75.806 Y-6.245 Z10.000 R24.969 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X75.806 Y-6.245 Z5.000 R24.969 I1.0 S2000
    G77 X75.806 Y-6.245 Z0.969 R24.969 I1.0 S2000
    G80
    G00 Z42.368

    Z zero is below the part. The hole starts at Z 19.6. Measuring where the broken tap tip is lodged, it comes out to be at Z10.6 (not clear which pass it was on), so the tap is about 10.0 into the hole.

    broken_m6.jpg

    edit: I took the tap out. I think I left about 0.5 uncoated shank sticking out, but I couldn't see any uncoated before removal. I marked it then took it out, and it's right at the line. So, some weak evidence it may have slipped maybe.


    Also, here's what I'm talking about with shank length. These Widia ones are short. Here's next to the m6 hand tap and the Widia M8 which has not made its maiden voyage yet (can't wait)

    shanks.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Holding a .255 shank tap in a .276 ER16 collet is hardly ideal. If it is a .255
    bore tap collet I say ok. Why shouldn't he use something with more grip like his ER25 or ER32 if he doesn't have the proper collet for his ER16?
    Did an assembly job a bit back. The bolts had to be torqued 2.6 to 3.4 ft*lbs.. I wasn't torqueing
    1700 bolts by hand so I started playing with the cordless drills.. Turns out the highest clutch
    setting on the Dewalts is about 3 ftlbs..

    Anyways.. So now I know what torque the clutch goes off at on the cordless drills.. When I tap with
    the cordless drills, I use the clutch. A 1/4-20 can easily be driven into mild steel with the clutch
    around 10 or 11 (max of 17).. A 3/8 fine will go into stainless without setting the clutch off..

    So....... If your ER16 can't resist 3 ft/lbs of torque, you've got a problem.

    That was a little long winded (can you tell I've got a job to do that I DO NOT want to do??)
    But it really takes very little torque to drive a modest size tap.

    What is the max torque that an ER16 is able to handle??? Frank??


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