Indexable drills-- inboard/outboard inserts vs. universal. Opinions?? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    You chose to decide to try to insight a riot THIS week?


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    Ox
    Nope, I asked a question.

    If the hooting starts, the shooting starts.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    How do they handle the insert gap/overlap at the centre?
    Just overlap the inserts.

    Actually, that can be done, kind of.
    If the inserts are not 90 degrees to the tool centerline, they can both cut to center.
    The center of the drill isn't rotating anyway, right?

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    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post



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    Ox


    Huh? Yea, that's me.......whad'ya want?

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    We have both styles. But you just need competent operators that know there are 2 different inserts per drill.
    Sandvik is our go-to and we love them.
    For larger holes we have the Allied Revolution drills that are adjustable. Those seem to work REALLY well, better than I expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    I also have been using a lot of Tungaloy TungSix Drills in the last couple of years. They are a nice hybrid approach - single insert, but it's double sided - one side has specific geometry for centre cutting, the other for peripheral cutting. Very thick, strong insert - good performer.
    Anybody else have any feedback on these? Looks like an awesome idea. I really like Tungaloy products too. Might check into these next time I need to buy a drill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    I also have been using a lot of Tungaloy TungSix Drills in the last couple of years. They are a nice hybrid approach - single insert, but it's double sided - one side has specific geometry for centre cutting, the other for peripheral cutting. Very thick, strong insert - good performer.
    You're saying geometry is more important than coating?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    You're saying geometry is more important than coating?
    Is that a real question or is it a Sears question?
    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Is that a real question or is it a Sears question?
    YouTube
    I was just wondering where he was coming from, that's all.

    I do get the concept of hard/brittle grade for the outboard insert and softer/ tougher for inboard.
    My question was, is it worth stocking two different inserts and how does the cost/benefit analysis come out?


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    How many holes are you making and in what material?

    Tougher materials lots of quantity and a need for speed two separate inserts are the way to go, buying two boxes of inserts is cheaper than buying three or for of the same ones used in another drill.

    Short runs or mild steel your inserts will break in setups and proofing more than wear out in use. One insert fits all is just fine here.


    For what its worth, I love the Iscar DR Drill for the setup I'm using it. Runs all day everyday for years and go through a box of inserts...maybe in that years time. Granted its a short hole but its hundreds of thousands of them. OTM, Carboly didn't come close...although the flat bottom of the OTM did save some time. Ultramax...worked ok, real cheap tools and inserts. But an insert failure usually took the body along with it or ripped screws out making it unusable. Almost always a reason something is cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I was just wondering where he was coming from, that's all.

    I do get the concept of hard/brittle grade for the outboard insert and softer/ tougher for inboard.
    My question was, is it worth stocking two different inserts and how does the cost/benefit analysis come out?


    .875" or 2.875" drill size?


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    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I was just wondering where he was coming from, that's all.
    Geometry the big guy, edge prep, substrate and then coating.
    I do know full well that most do not have a lot of options and a do all insert is the absolute best choice.
    Some people will need 300 inserts a week, others 10 inserts over two or five years.
    Bob

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    We have a Kenna' HTS style Drill. It sings and moves Metal. It cuts 60mm holes 10x diameter depth. The geometry of the Inserts change from 84° Trigon on the periphery, to 90° squares as it gets close to center. And a .625"? center drill fixed to the body. Obviously the pockets don't change. The only control we have is chip breaker and coating. But I'm assuming they figured out why those geometries worked best for that Drill.

    R

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    I think it's pretty common anymore to put sumpthing less than square on the outboard pocket, so that it doesn't end up rubbing on the bore.

    Then squares elsewhere so that you git 4 edges for the $.
    The sqr may be a more robust design tho too?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I think it's pretty common anymore to put sumpthing less than square on the outboard pocket, so that it doesn't end up rubbing on the bore.

    Then squares elsewhere so that you git 4 edges for the $.
    The sqr may be a more robust design tho too?


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    Ox
    Squares on the outboard pocket get tilted a few degrees to keep such rubbing from happening. And yes, more robust than a trigon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    How many holes are you making and in what material?

    Tougher materials lots of quantity and a need for speed two separate inserts are the way to go, buying two boxes of inserts is cheaper than buying three or for of the same ones used in another drill.

    Short runs or mild steel your inserts will break in setups and proofing more than wear out in use. One insert fits all is just fine here.
    We run mostly low-carbon steel (1018, A-36, 1045, 12L14). Most of our holes are small enough to use solid carbide or modular tip drills (<5/8").
    The insert drill applications in question here are 1-1.5" in diameter. We run mostly short production runs and/or one off stuff.
    Like I posted earlier, we don't do enough production to do thorough testing. Which is why I asked what is working for you guys.

    So I am going to stay with the universal insert drills that we have, but if a job falls down the pipe that needs a new drill I would like to try a few different ones.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    We run mostly low-carbon steel (1018, A-36, 1045, 12L14). Most of our holes are small enough to use solid carbide or modular tip drills (<5/8").
    The insert drill applications in question here are 1-1.5" in diameter. We run mostly short production runs and/or one off stuff.
    Like I posted earlier, we don't do enough production to do thorough testing. Which is why I asked what is working for you guys.

    So I am going to stay with the universal insert drills that we have, but if a job falls down the pipe that needs a new drill I would like to try a few different ones.

    For those materials, drills like the 880 at al. are not a good choice anyway.

    My current go to for soft materials and smaller holes is Tungaloy TungDrillTwisted (TDX series). Single lozenge shaped insert similar to the old mitsubishi drills, light cutting action, good chip formation in soft materials.


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