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Inserts failing on face mill.

BRIAN.T

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
I got a new 2" face shoulder face mill about 6 months ago. I did some research and got a well liked tool from one of the big brands. I chose something that would do well for aluminum and steel. This tool stays in my 5 axis, so I wanted to be able to switch inserts and run the next material.

Unfortunately Ive gone through 2 boxes of aluminum inserts in 6 months. The inserts just crumble or crack if you look at them wrong. Im operating well within the recommended guidelines, I'm using a torque wrench for setting inserts, i even dropped down to more then half the torque they recommend. Nothing helps. Inserts shatter when putting new ones in, they shatter or crack when taking them out, they break during milling (not as often).

I've had two reps out to look at the tool,they can't figure it out. They've given me a brand new tool, brand new inserts from different lots.ive tried every feed and speed they can throw at it. And still the inserts fall apart.

So my question is, what the hell is going on? And probably more importantly what should I replace this piece of shit with? What's a great versatile face mill. I would need 2" diameter, shouldering, .315 min depth (I don't need more) surface finish isn't super important, I'm more interested in removing material. Something that cuts aluminum really well, but can also mill steel/stainless with different inserts. Coolant through is nice.
 
..... Nothing helps. Inserts shatter when putting new ones in, they shatter or crack when taking them out, they break during milling (not as often).
.....

Inserts break when putting a new one in?
At way, way past the torque spec that just should not happen. The screw should give up first.
Are you sure you have the right insert for the cutter body?
This happens if you mismatch clearance angles or thicknesses as the insert locks up on the walls to far above the floor and you then you try to bend it. The insert won't like that.
Dirty pockets can also do this but it's more a big once in a while Some cutter bodies have dirt relief and some don't. Almost like they expect you to index tools in a clean room.
Badly made inserts will do this but you said big brand so that side make no sense either.

Pics of empty pocket at change and a pic of the insert? Has the cutter had a good sized wreck?
One designs for ham fisted operators and extreme abuse or disregard when indexing.
Something is so way not right.
Bob
 
6061 almost exclusively, however that wouldn't explain inserts breaking when I'm putting them in the cutter.... Or looking at them wrong:)

there are some new casting alloys that chew inserts up instantly. But with 6061 they should last for years. Like Bob said, it sounds like you've got the wrong inserts. If you're trying to rip a lot of material off in a big hurry, I'd recommend a shear hog from AB tool.
 
Inserts shatter when putting new ones in, they shatter or crack when taking them out,



So my question is, what the hell is going on?

good questions. generally if you crack and insert by screwing it in you have a bind somewhere.
what tool is this and what brand and part number?
 
Inserts break when putting a new one in?
At way, way past the torque spec that just should not happen. The screw should give up first.
Are you sure you have the right insert for the cutter body?
This happens if you mismatch clearance angles or thicknesses as the insert locks up on the walls to far above the floor and you then you try to bend it. The insert won't like that.
Dirty pockets can also do this but it's more a big once in a while Some cutter bodies have dirt relief and some don't. Almost like they expect you to index tools in a clean room.
Badly made inserts will do this but you said big brand so that side make no sense either.

Pics of empty pocket at change and a pic of the insert? Has the cutter had a good sized wreck?
One designs for ham fisted operators and extreme abuse or disregard when indexing.
Something is so way not right.
Bob

I'll take some pictures on Monday. I'm sure I've got the right inserts, I was more inclined to think I've got the wrong screws. But again I've been given a second cutter, seems unlikely the packaging department would have included the wrong screws twice. Although it's possible.

As for changing inserts, I've pulled the tool apart and cleaned the hell out of it. After my first set of broken inserts ive cleaned it every time. And I'm the only one doing anything on this machine, nobody else is allowed to even index an insert. the first tools pockets did get thrashed from it's own broken inserts, which is why they gave me a second one. This one breaks less inserts during milling, so the pockets are still perfect. But even still, all the other face mills I have in the shop on my three axis machines have been crashed and beat to hell by my operators over the years. And they still work well.... Ish.
 
there are some new casting alloys that chew inserts up instantly. But with 6061 they should last for years. Like Bob said, it sounds like you've got the wrong inserts. If you're trying to rip a lot of material off in a big hurry, I'd recommend a shear hog from AB tool.

I agree, and if I were seeing even the slightest sign of wear I wouldn't probably think to much of it, but the broken inserts are still sharp as hell, some last maybe 5 minutes.
 
QT: I've had two reps out to look at the tool,they can't figure it out.
I agree with Bob ..Loading inserts you darn near strip the screw before you can crack the insert..
Splash coolant can be bad if inserts get red hot then wet. Flood is Ok most times.

QT:[ Ive gone through 2 boxes of aluminum inserts in 6 months. } How many work hours did you get?

Small cutter this is not as much of a problem but making a wedge insert full tight and going around the cutter .. then as the cutter is pressured out of wack so the last portion the wedge shape is out of wack and the last inserts don't hold well. likely not the case with such a small cutter.

What is the make/model of cutter?
Some times the bargain basement insert proves good with having a tool change frequency, so you might pull before they go bad. Agree that would not cause inserts breaking at filling a cutter

Oh how solid is your set-up.. if you tap it with a hammer does it ring/vibrate.
 
good questions. generally if you crack and insert by screwing it in you have a bind somewhere.
what tool is this and what brand and part number?

I hate to do this because I like these guys, and they've been super helpful to me, but I suppose in interest of information I'll allow it. It's an iscar pn 3106636
 
QT: I've had two reps out to look at the tool,they can't figure it out.
I agree with Bob ..Loading inserts you darn near strip the screw before you can crack the insert..
Splash coolant can be bad if inserts get red hot then wet. Flood is Ok most times.

QT:[ Ive gone through 2 boxes of aluminum inserts in 6 months. } How many work hours did you get?

Small cutter this is not as much of a problem but making a wedge insert full tight and going around the cutter .. then as the cutter is pressured out of wack so the last portion the wedge shape is out of wack and the last inserts don't hold well. likely not the case with such a small cutter.

What is the make/model of cutter?
Some times the bargain basement insert proves good with having a tool change frequency, so you might pull before they go bad. Agree that would not cause inserts breaking at filling a cutter

Oh how solid is your set-up.. if you tap it with a hammer does it ring/vibrate.

See my above reply for brand of cutter. For hours, it would be extremely low relatively to the inserts. I broke at least one the first day using it, and I've broken others without having even taken a cut.

As for setup rigidity, they have been on both ends of the spectrum. It's a five axis, so it's not uncommon to be milling a part hanging 6" out of a vise. And I would certainly accept that as the problem, but it also happens on rigid setups, and again sometime when just putting them in, I've probably broken 6 new inserts by putting them in the cutter.
 
yeah thats odd for iscar, maybe they had a bad batch of something screws, holder inserts. have you tried differnt screws by chance?

Only time I ever had a insert break while tightening it down is the tool holder had a burr on the back inseide corner so the insert wasnt setting flat
 
I hate to do this because I like these guys, and they've been super helpful to me, but I suppose in interest of information I'll allow it. It's an iscar pn 3106636

Something's definitely amiss.

We use Iscar HM390s extensively in cast iron and steel and haven't had any issues in over 6 years and probably over 1000 inserts. Mostly the 1505 size inserts but also some of the 1003. IC808 and IC830 grades.

I wonder if you may have a defective cutter body, which your rep should be able to sort out.
 
I've seen good & bad examples of milling cutter bodies from Iscar. We had to quit using one line of their milling cutters, because the inserts would not seat in the pockets correctly when you tightened the screws. (Tangential style cutter) Not trying to bash them, just being real...



You're wanting a 2" 90* facemill with more than 8mm DOC, for steel, stainless and aluminum? A Seco Turbo-12 in fine-pitch would be extremely hard to beat. More grade/edge-prep/radius combo's than you can shake a stick at too...

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...8231633+4288231640+4287609735&searchterm=seco
 
So my question is, what the hell is going on? And probably more importantly what should I replace this piece of shit with? What's a great versatile face mill. I would need 2" diameter, shouldering, .315 min depth (I don't need more) surface finish isn't super important, I'm more interested in removing material.

Call your Iscar rep and have them replace your 1003 sized facemill and inserts with the 1505 equivalents. The inserts and screws are much beefier.
 
Call your Iscar rep and have them replace your 1003 sized facemill and inserts with the 1505 equivalents. The inserts and screws are much beefier.


That doesn't really address his problem though. I've used 3/8" and 1/2" inserted cutters, so you know those are tiny screws and inserts, and not broken them, only worn out by (actually) using them... Worst I have seen is stripping the head of the screw...
 
That's really weird. Please let us know how it works out. I think the first thing I would try is a different face mill in the new machine... or the questionable facemill in a different machine. But I have a hard time picturing how thermal shock or machine harmonics could cause carbide inserts to decompose.

I know Exkenna already suggested one of his facemills, but I was going to suggest one of his Ripper Facemills. I have had good luck with those.
 








 
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