I'm sure many of you have been in my situation at one time or another, that's why I came here for comfort (or get blasted).
Introduction Background: I'm trying to setup a hobby/prototyping workspace in my garage in the Southern California area. I know I know, you've all heard that before and take it as code word for 'that's cute, little guy wants to run machine shop in his tiny garage', but I legitimately plan to use it as such and have no qualms with renting a proper workshop later should the need arise. I've gone through the numerous threads of people wanting to do similar, so I'm familiar with the do's and don'ts advice given by this community, which I immensely appreciate. I was an Engineer for ~10 years in semiconductor industry, but had an early 30's crisis where I would find myself researching how to become a Firefighter during work (in my free time of course). I wanted something different. I realized I wanted to design/make things and genuinely love learning and trying to figure out where this rabbit hole leads to. I started off with 3D printing and wanted to make simple injection molds for camera/bike accessories etc. Now I have a Fadal 2016L (not operational yet) in my 2-car garage. I've been trying to get up to speed about the art of CNC machining through online resources. Going to shady auctions and buying too much crap, I should have all the essentials to get me started... yet I've never operated a CNC machine before. The hurdle preventing me from starting production, I mean prototyping - electrical issues.
Electrical Hurdle: I had posted on a different DIY forum (Plans For Abnormal Garage Electrical Work With Diagram - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum) to get some input on my electrical plan (with diagram). I was basically told to get a qualified electrician to do everything, which I was planning to do anyways, but was hoping to get some feedback in terms of layout/components so that I may have a better understanding of the work to be performed. I have already purchased most of the main components, except for the wiring/conduit which I will leave to the Electrician. I've had 2 Electricians come by so far to scope out the work to be done. Electrician 1 (E-1) is a friend of a friend that works for a company that does some specialized Commercial Electrical work, but just got his contractors license and wants to dabble in that. E-1 (bundled with a co-worker) said they could perform this work for an hourly rate. Estimates ~2 days, warns of possibly 3. Electrician 2 (E-2) is a semi-popular fellow on Yelp. E-2 caught my attention due to vast experience with heavy machinery and residential electrical work. Spent about an hour with E-2 and estimate of project comes in at ~30K (given I already have main components) and take 5 or more days. Furthermore, E-2 suggests what I want to have done is impossible and I would burn my house down without upgrading to a 400A service first (already inquired with Electric Provider SCE; wants 25K-30K), so E-2 would only do a 125A subpanel for the garage. Hopefully you can get a sense of the dilemma and predicament I'm in. It seems like E-1 and E-2 are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. E-1 views it as a doable and not too difficult job for reasonable cost I believe (including replacing the Main Service Panel with another model to allow for a 200A branch breaker). E-2 sees it as impossible the way I have it planned out, as I will burn down my house and have neighbors/city officials at my doorsteps (he keeps re-iterating this). Even with E-2 only willing to do a lesser version of what I had envisioned, it is still unfeasible cost-wise for me.
Electrical Hurdle (continued): Just to give you some examples how E-1 and E-2 differ in approach significantly:
Example 1 - I call out that my MSP only allows max branch breaker size of 100A per spec. Therefore I would need to replace it with a newer similar model that allows for 200A max branch breaker. E-1 doubted it at first (maybe assuming that it was standard to allow breaker up to size of MSP), but later agrees and embraces that the MSP would need to be replaced. E-2 on the other hand will use existing MSP and put 125A breaker on it, even though I keep stating that spec says max 100A. E-2 reiterates to trust because E-2 is a Master Electrician.
Example 2 - I have some attic space between where my MSP is located in the backyard and the attached garage out front. E-1 says possibility of wire run through the attic (I suggested SER Aluminum 250-250-250 3/0 ground rated for 230A) avoiding need for conduit for majority of run because likely not exposed to physical damage. E-2 says it must be run with conduit outside along wall and conductors must be Copper because Aluminum basically wouldn't be durable enough for my load.
Example 3 - E-1 basically agrees with everything I propose and is on board, which makes me like E-1 but wary because of scary E-2. E-2 basically disagrees with everything I purpose and knowledge about specific spec such as the Phase Converter being able to provide max ~64A steady state 3 Phase load with ~110A Single Phase input (Phase Perfect PT355D). E-2 says that would be magic and math doesn't lie, stating max ~40A 3 Phase output given ~120A single phase input. I believe E-2's math to be misguided by using 3 as the multiplier, and not sqrt(3).
In Closing: From your experiences, is E-1 downplaying the amount of work to be done and/or is E-2 overestimating the feasibility/complexity? I would like to give benefit of doubt to E-2 being significantly more experienced in this type of work, which is why it makes me feel uneasy that E-1 can do it without much hesitation for a fraction of the cost. Hopefully I can get some community members experienced with this type of situation to weigh in, designated as E-4, E-5, E-6, ..., E-N. I really appreciate any feedback and let me know if you need any additional information. And just to throw it out there, while I'm still trying to figure this all out, if anyone has a shop in the Orange County region of Southern California that is needing an extra hand and brain, I would be more than honored to help out for free. I would love to learn while providing productive results.
Introduction Background: I'm trying to setup a hobby/prototyping workspace in my garage in the Southern California area. I know I know, you've all heard that before and take it as code word for 'that's cute, little guy wants to run machine shop in his tiny garage', but I legitimately plan to use it as such and have no qualms with renting a proper workshop later should the need arise. I've gone through the numerous threads of people wanting to do similar, so I'm familiar with the do's and don'ts advice given by this community, which I immensely appreciate. I was an Engineer for ~10 years in semiconductor industry, but had an early 30's crisis where I would find myself researching how to become a Firefighter during work (in my free time of course). I wanted something different. I realized I wanted to design/make things and genuinely love learning and trying to figure out where this rabbit hole leads to. I started off with 3D printing and wanted to make simple injection molds for camera/bike accessories etc. Now I have a Fadal 2016L (not operational yet) in my 2-car garage. I've been trying to get up to speed about the art of CNC machining through online resources. Going to shady auctions and buying too much crap, I should have all the essentials to get me started... yet I've never operated a CNC machine before. The hurdle preventing me from starting production, I mean prototyping - electrical issues.
Electrical Hurdle: I had posted on a different DIY forum (Plans For Abnormal Garage Electrical Work With Diagram - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum) to get some input on my electrical plan (with diagram). I was basically told to get a qualified electrician to do everything, which I was planning to do anyways, but was hoping to get some feedback in terms of layout/components so that I may have a better understanding of the work to be performed. I have already purchased most of the main components, except for the wiring/conduit which I will leave to the Electrician. I've had 2 Electricians come by so far to scope out the work to be done. Electrician 1 (E-1) is a friend of a friend that works for a company that does some specialized Commercial Electrical work, but just got his contractors license and wants to dabble in that. E-1 (bundled with a co-worker) said they could perform this work for an hourly rate. Estimates ~2 days, warns of possibly 3. Electrician 2 (E-2) is a semi-popular fellow on Yelp. E-2 caught my attention due to vast experience with heavy machinery and residential electrical work. Spent about an hour with E-2 and estimate of project comes in at ~30K (given I already have main components) and take 5 or more days. Furthermore, E-2 suggests what I want to have done is impossible and I would burn my house down without upgrading to a 400A service first (already inquired with Electric Provider SCE; wants 25K-30K), so E-2 would only do a 125A subpanel for the garage. Hopefully you can get a sense of the dilemma and predicament I'm in. It seems like E-1 and E-2 are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. E-1 views it as a doable and not too difficult job for reasonable cost I believe (including replacing the Main Service Panel with another model to allow for a 200A branch breaker). E-2 sees it as impossible the way I have it planned out, as I will burn down my house and have neighbors/city officials at my doorsteps (he keeps re-iterating this). Even with E-2 only willing to do a lesser version of what I had envisioned, it is still unfeasible cost-wise for me.
Electrical Hurdle (continued): Just to give you some examples how E-1 and E-2 differ in approach significantly:
Example 1 - I call out that my MSP only allows max branch breaker size of 100A per spec. Therefore I would need to replace it with a newer similar model that allows for 200A max branch breaker. E-1 doubted it at first (maybe assuming that it was standard to allow breaker up to size of MSP), but later agrees and embraces that the MSP would need to be replaced. E-2 on the other hand will use existing MSP and put 125A breaker on it, even though I keep stating that spec says max 100A. E-2 reiterates to trust because E-2 is a Master Electrician.
Example 2 - I have some attic space between where my MSP is located in the backyard and the attached garage out front. E-1 says possibility of wire run through the attic (I suggested SER Aluminum 250-250-250 3/0 ground rated for 230A) avoiding need for conduit for majority of run because likely not exposed to physical damage. E-2 says it must be run with conduit outside along wall and conductors must be Copper because Aluminum basically wouldn't be durable enough for my load.
Example 3 - E-1 basically agrees with everything I propose and is on board, which makes me like E-1 but wary because of scary E-2. E-2 basically disagrees with everything I purpose and knowledge about specific spec such as the Phase Converter being able to provide max ~64A steady state 3 Phase load with ~110A Single Phase input (Phase Perfect PT355D). E-2 says that would be magic and math doesn't lie, stating max ~40A 3 Phase output given ~120A single phase input. I believe E-2's math to be misguided by using 3 as the multiplier, and not sqrt(3).
In Closing: From your experiences, is E-1 downplaying the amount of work to be done and/or is E-2 overestimating the feasibility/complexity? I would like to give benefit of doubt to E-2 being significantly more experienced in this type of work, which is why it makes me feel uneasy that E-1 can do it without much hesitation for a fraction of the cost. Hopefully I can get some community members experienced with this type of situation to weigh in, designated as E-4, E-5, E-6, ..., E-N. I really appreciate any feedback and let me know if you need any additional information. And just to throw it out there, while I'm still trying to figure this all out, if anyone has a shop in the Orange County region of Southern California that is needing an extra hand and brain, I would be more than honored to help out for free. I would love to learn while providing productive results.
