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  1. #81
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    I never got this I'm too highly paid to clean up stuff and I have removed people from my payroll for this attitude alone.
    I make a lot, don't apologize for it but I'll sure as hell grab a mop, broom, shovel, or clean the toilet if needed. Never seen a job to be done below my station.

    A while back the GM execs and high level managers got invited to view everything in Toyota.
    They are looking over the books and the GM wiz asks, where are you daily cleanup costs?
    The Toyota guy asks "What?"
    The GM guy says "You know, picking up stuff people drop on the floor, cleaning the machines up, keeping the work area clean and neat."
    The Toyota guy says, "Why would you pay someone else to clean the mess you made?".
    The GM guy had a huge clean up staff, the Toyota guy had very few. They did not understand each other at all here.

    Of course GM did well and the Japs are in the shitter.
    One of my favorite examples of the division of labor here vs. our overseas competition.

    Now many people run cncs and watch it run parts. Something wrong with "If you have the time to lean, you have the time to clean."?
    Bob

  2. #82
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    Ahh nevermind.

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  4. #83
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    My employer has a good method.

    What I do...Everything from the programing of four Haas CNC machines to all the tasks it takes to get the parts from raw stock and ready to ship, plus prototyping and a lot more really. I am 25.

    My compensation... Salary pay right at the average for my state for a machinist, 3k bonus 4x a year for putting in extra effort and doing your job well, a fully stocked kitchen, 9 hour work day with a 1 hour lunch, 10 pay Holliday's and 10 paid days off, Company pays 80% of insurance premiums with Blue cross blue shield, and an over all relaxed enviorment.

    That would probly do it.

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    personally the free employee lunches and the feel good meeting with bosses do not mean much with me.
    .
    for many it is keeping the wife happy. if she feels i am not making enough per hr i have to listen to her complain. that means 10x more than to me than just about anything else. if she wants a new house or a new car the free lunch or feel good team meetings will not pay the bills

    EXACTLY!!! Those gestures from a company are nice of them, but.... As long as the people are good to work with and pay/benefits are tolerable. THAT is what counts. The trouble is, there are a lot of people that always have the "grass is greener" mentality, whether they have a REAL reason to believe it or not!

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I never got this I'm too highly paid to clean up stuff and I have removed people from my payroll for this attitude alone.

    Now many people run cncs and watch it run parts. Something wrong with "If you have the time to lean, you have the time to clean."?
    Bob

    I don't have time to lean. I run as many CNC lathes and mills as possible. Set-up, program, everything. Should I run fewer machines and fewer parts to clean and do other people's (that are paid LESS!) work? That isn't very cost effective either. You aren't a stupid guy. I would think you would know this. Or do you have ONE person running ONE CNC machine at a time and he does the janitor's work as well? Why not get your money's worth out of the machinist's knowledge and have him run more than one machine? THAT kinda operation wouldn't be profitable?

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I never got this I'm too highly paid to clean up stuff and I have removed people from my payroll for this attitude alone.
    I make a lot, don't apologize for it but I'll sure as hell grab a mop, broom, shovel, or clean the toilet if needed. Never seen a job to be done below my station.
    Bob
    I hate boss guys always looking for a way to prove they'll do any job. They never just clean the bathroom and get back to doing their normal job. They have to tell everyone THEY CLEANED THE BATHROOM. What's so funny is that they're trying to act like they're not better than anyone else, but that's exactly what they are doing. If theres a couple of guys like that in a shop, it becomes a compition to see which guy is BETTER because he did X job. Huh huh, Johns over there drinking coffee while I CLEAN THIS COOLANT TANK. SEE! LOOKIT ME CLEANING THIS WHEN I DON"T HAVE TO .

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  9. #87
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    John,
    I think you just hate boss guys in general and your on-line self just likes to hate ,..... well everyone.
    Bob

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    John,
    I think you just hate boss guys in general and your on-line self just likes to hate ,..... well everyone.
    Bob
    I was like 20% trolling with that last post. If you clean the bathroom without the motivation of getting recognized for it, I respect that. I've just worked for quite a few guys who were pretty phony about how much better their work ethic is than everyone else's. They'd do stupid jobs that didn't really need to be done so they could say they did them. WHENS THE LAST TIME SOMEONE WIPED DOWN THE INSIDE OF THE BATHROOM CABINET. Well don't worry I DID IT. PFFFFFFFFFFFF. YUP, SPENT ALL WEEKEND PAINTIN MOMS HOUSE. HADNT BERN PAINTED IN DAMN NEAR A YEAR. NO ONE EVEN LIFTED A HAND TO HELP ME. PFFFFFFFFFFFFF

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  12. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    "If you have the time to lean, you have the time to clean."?
    Bob
    I'm going to put that on a sign and hang it on the shop wall.

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    For me its a question of judgment: treat employees that have initiative, with more pay, and more opportunites.
    Operators that want to leave for a buck more an hour; its not woth it: they have to leave.
    I'm acutally driving my own son, to understand this in the shop: If he's just in it for the $, just go to somone else's shop, and work for them...
    I really enjoy rewarding "drivers" might it be in processes, admin, or what ever else... I'm a small B owner, and corporate BS that has lately evolved, is just BS! run your show, run it fairly, and reap the benifits!

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  15. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I never got this I'm too highly paid to clean up stuff and I have removed people from my payroll for this attitude alone.
    I make a lot, don't apologize for it but I'll sure as hell grab a mop, broom, shovel, or clean the toilet if needed. Never seen a job to be done below my station.
    Bob

    It is a little different when YOU are the business owner! You do as much of WHATEVER type of work there, as you see fit. It really is "all about YOU!" If you WANT to hire someone else to do something, you do it!

  16. #92
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    Had 14 years in the first company I worked for, did a lot of things above and beyond, had all the figures mentally prepared in my head to justify a raise at my next evaluation.... and before I could get to that I got a load of complaints which got me busted!

    Politics, basically one guy making complaints about me because he wanted my job, didn't know about it until later. Wound up leaving for a $2/ hour PAY CUT (but it was before my 14 year nickel raise became due.... I took a big cut but the company didn't get to keep my nickel.) Faulted the company for not seeing through this.

    25 years later, semi-retired with a pension and benefits from another company, working part time at one shop and part time in my own shop, and thinking it was the best move I ever made. I suppose I should leave the guy something in my will, but....nah.

  17. #93
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    Once you weed through a lot of the bullshit in here there are some very good points.

    First of all, (in my opinion) if your employees are looking to leave at the first sign of a dollar an hour dangling over their heads, there's more wrong with your employer/employee relations than you think.

    Granted there are some people who only care about making the most they possibly can, and quite honestly, who can blame them, right?.......but for me personally, as long as my bills were being paid, the family was taken care of through the benefits provided, and the working conditions were good.....I was happy!

    I found it quite amusing to read about people coming home and their wives telling them they need to find a new job and make more money.

    Simple solution to that problem..........live within your means, or continue your education to become a more valuable employee.

    Don't buy what you want and then try to figure out a way to pay for it later as so many do these days.

    Just because you make poor financial decisions as an employee is not my problem as an employer.


    I also strongly agree with what John said about having machinists machine, and those who aren't machinists doing the menial tasks that can be done by those less skilled and at a lower wage keeping the primary focus on having the machinist make money for your business.

    And no, it does not promote a "diva" attitude unless you allow to become that way. I feel it is a very good thing to make your employees feel like they are doing the best job they possibly can, but at the same time, you cannot allow it to be an egotistical affliction.

    For me and my shop there are just four of us. We work 7:00am-3:30pm and I have three Cnc machines.

    I am the first one to work every morning and get the building opened up, all the machines turned on and warming up, grab my coffee sit down in my office and get to work figuring out how the day is going to run.

    My son (27), who has worked for me now going on 6 years full time, (many years before that part time) can set up and run any of the machines, and it's his job to get a spindle running at 7:00am.

    My daughter (25) who has worked for me full time for just over a year now is the proverbial "Jack of all trades". Daily machine maintenance, button pusher, delivery truck unloader, sawcutting, deburring, shipping, invoicing, receptionist.....she can do it all.......in my wife's absence I should state, otherwise my wife handles all the shipping, and office duties.

    Her job though first thing every morning is to clean out the two machines sitting idle while Andrew is making chips, empty chip bins, top off coolant tanks, check coolant concentration levels, and then she switches hats and becomes a button pusher on one of the other machines that Andrew now has up and running. Once that is achieved, the third machine is brought into production. Then it just becomes a matter of switching parts out on the three machines.

    Typically by 7:30, Andrew has all three machines running while Danielle does the daily maintenance.

    Our shop is clean, organized, and climate controlled year round. We provide good pay, full health insurance (BCBS), two weeks paid vacation after one year, three after five, eight paid holidays, and five paid sick days. At Christmas time a weeks pay as a bonus is paid, and several times throughout the year, lunches, dinners and time off early with pay is provided as a "thanks for the hard work you've been doing"

    I am VERY demanding.......and it is a family business, and everyone including my wife knows I can be a real asshole of a boss at times.

    But everyone knows QUALITY is what it takes to make this business successful, and everyone is working hard to do just that, provide a quality part on time!

    And that is exactly what I want as an owner......happy employees who care about the success of their job place more than the offer of a little more money somewhere else.

    Money as they say is not everything. I would consider great working conditions equally as important as dollars per hour.

    After all, as the saying goes........."If you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life!"

    Best Regards,
    Russ

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  19. #94
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    We should develop some sort of must-have CNC technology so we'll never have to work again


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