Kitamura Medcenter... Anyone ever used one?
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    Default Kitamura Medcenter... Anyone ever used one?

    Looking into something smaller / faster to run cheaper parts then throwing on Grob / Yasda.
    Concerned about chip to chip time. This medcenter doesn't look super fast from the videos..

    Also looking into Brother S500 with 5 axis table, Robodrill with 5 axis table, possibly other options.
    Trying to find something small footprint with work area of around 8" and fast. ~30-40 tools would be ideal .
    If DMG Mori wasn't such a cluster I'd really like a milltap 700 with the 5ax table but trust them as far as I could throw the brochure....

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    Amen on the milltap. I fell in love with them when I first saw them at IMTS - about as fast as a robodrill and real hp and rigidity. I talked to our Mori rep and he said that he would not sell one to me - they were a cluster f.

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    Have a look at Matsuura's linear motor machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Looking into something smaller / faster to run cheaper parts then throwing on Grob / Yasda.
    Concerned about chip to chip time. This medcenter doesn't look super fast from the videos..

    Also looking into Brother S500 with 5 axis table, Robodrill with 5 axis table, possibly other options.
    Trying to find something small footprint with work area of around 8" and fast. ~30-40 tools would be ideal .
    If DMG Mori wasn't such a cluster I'd really like a milltap 700 with the 5ax table but trust them as far as I could throw the brochure....
    What kind of chip to chip time you looking for ? Broad strokes.

    The NEW (DMG MORI) DMP 70 with 5 axis looks really good BUT is unbelievably expensive. + potential woes. (You wanna guess ?) lol. It almost seems like a "Vanity" machine for those that don't want a Robodrill on their floor for cosmetic reasons , and yet the core design seems really sound. Frustrating really. Siemens control … you might be able to untangle potential problems of such a machine more successfully than DMG locally ?

    Haven't run the Kitamura Medcenter, it has a very particular/ really tight work volume.

    BTW did anyone help you with your YASDA to set up ? Just wondering if you approached Methods or not or whether you did that all independently ? And with all the Grobs you have now will you be thinking of selling your YASDA ? :-)

    Ta.

    Eric

    Any budget in mind where too much is too much ? AND how many ? 5 axis small footprint fast "Beasties" ?

    Makino D 200 Z seems pretty awesome but maybe a bit too "Flossy" for what you want and definitely NOT chirpy-chirpy cheap-cheep. But fast and extremely precise.

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    Since you know brothers and you think it can do it. Look at the R650 X2. Has a 40 tool option.

    When I looked at the led center, I thought the price was high for such little travel. It did have scales if I remember right though. And to be honest why do most 5 axis machines have the slowest tool changers?

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    Work envelope needs? The LF/LX 160 from Matsuura are pretty amazing machines.

    Since I am not going to buy it anyways, there is a piston manufacturer in Michigan selling a 2003 LX-0 5AX with robot cell for <$50k...

    For "cheap," have you considered Tsugami VA3/VL3? I think they can only run a 4th axis, though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unahorn View Post
    Since you know brothers and you think it can do it. Look at the R650 X2. Has a 40 tool option.

    When I looked at the led center, I thought the price was high for such little travel. It did have scales if I remember right though. And to be honest why do most 5 axis machines have the slowest tool changers?
    Well to be fair, Brother does not make 5-axis machines, they make 4+1 machines only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well to be fair, Brother does not make 5-axis machines, they make 4+1 machines only.

    But he also said he was thinking of a s500 with a 5axis table. But he wants up to 40 tools.

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    Wait... you have Yasdas and Grobs?

    Are you hiring?

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    Quote Originally Posted by footpetaljones View Post
    Have a look at Matsuura's linear motor machines.
    Too expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    What kind of chip to chip time you looking for ? Broad strokes.

    The NEW (DMG MORI) DMP 70 with 5 axis looks really good BUT is unbelievably expensive. + potential woes. (You wanna guess ?) lol. It almost seems like a "Vanity" machine for those that don't want a Robodrill on their floor for cosmetic reasons , and yet the core design seems really sound. Frustrating really. Siemens control … you might be able to untangle potential problems of such a machine more successfully than DMG locally ?

    Haven't run the Kitamura Medcenter, it has a very particular/ really tight work volume.

    BTW did anyone help you with your YASDA to set up ? Just wondering if you approached Methods or not or whether you did that all independently ? And with all the Grobs you have now will you be thinking of selling your YASDA ? :-)

    Ta.

    Eric

    Any budget in mind where too much is too much ? AND how many ? 5 axis small footprint fast "Beasties" ?

    Makino D 200 Z seems pretty awesome but maybe a bit too "Flossy" for what you want and definitely NOT chirpy-chirpy cheap-cheep. But fast and extremely precise.

    Something fast that doesn't have to travel so far to change tools. We are getting a lot of smaller / cheaper parts that could be moved to a cheaper system to free up capacity here. All the parts on the new machine (whatever brand) would be under 2" cube most likely.

    Also the thought of selling the yasda has crossed my mind a lot. It is a great + badass system. Its a few years old and has over 16k spindle hours on it though! It has made me some money for sure! It has been reliable and very accurate. The only issue I have with it is that its kinda slow and its different from the other 3 Grob machines. We have the Yasda kinda isolated for only aluminum jobs (225 tools resident right now in the control) and we use pockets 250-315 to swap special job specific tools. The tool management side on the Fanuc isn't as nice as the Siemens to manage tons of tools that don't live in the machine.

    I put an email out to the local makino rep to see where that D200 sits pricing before I wrote this post


    Quote Originally Posted by Unahorn View Post
    Since you know brothers and you think it can do it. Look at the R650 X2. Has a 40 tool option.

    When I looked at the led center, I thought the price was high for such little travel. It did have scales if I remember right though. And to be honest why do most 5 axis machines have the slowest tool changers?
    R650 was a thought but Id prefer the C frame design machine right now. Easier to automate for us down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Work envelope needs? The LF/LX 160 from Matsuura are pretty amazing machines.

    Since I am not going to buy it anyways, there is a piston manufacturer in Michigan selling a 2003 LX-0 5AX with robot cell for <$50k...

    For "cheap," have you considered Tsugami VA3/VL3? I think they can only run a 4th axis, though...
    Never looked at that Tsugami before. I will check it out. I really only need 3+2 work . Anything with 5 axis cutting will move to a higher end machine.



    Quote Originally Posted by macds View Post
    Wait... you have Yasdas and Grobs?

    Are you hiring?
    If you want to come to this shit hole we call california yes! If it wasn't for family we would have left a long time ago....

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    Have you seen the Robodrill robot toolchange video? If you plan to automate, the same robot to change parts can load the required tools.

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    ^^^ Is a tool change through the center back of the machine like this quick enough ? (watch to the end of video).

    Dan Katayama of Enshu USA put this together. Frame of machine is like a bridge style. High torque - at low end for spindle of 90 NM. 30 taper machine.

    Mits 850 S control.

    Originally I think it was "pitched" at around $170K but not sure what and how or whether Mr. Katayama followed through on the machine ? (that was a couple of years ago).

    @dstryr SPindle wise what would you ideally want ? From your posts I gather you are doing more Titanium(s) and lower end torque / "grunt" is needed ?

    Just kinda interested in what RPMs and materials you may need to "process" on said small footprint 5 axis.

    Interesting about future automation options.

    I dooooo think there are few gaps currently in the market space for such machines. Especially sub 400 mm 5 axis machines (sim 5) with scales.

    Maybe Brother have something up their sleeve yet to be rolled out ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    <snip>




    If you want to come to this shit hole we call california yes! If it wasn't for family we would have left a long time ago....
    Having fled LA a long time ago , almost went (back) to San Diego and almost stuck a flag in Sacramento… but settled on Denver / Parker and CO instead.

    Obviously I'd love to twist your arm to come to CO.

    If it wasn't for family where would you wanna go ? (maybe ?) … (if you don't mind me asking.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Having fled LA a long time ago , almost went (back) to San Diego and almost stuck a flag in Sacramento… but settled on Denver / Parker and CO instead.

    Obviously I'd love to twist your arm to come to CO.

    If it wasn't for family where would you wanna go ? (maybe ?) … (if you don't mind me asking.).
    One of my employees (long story how he came to us... used to be the NX local reseller) moved to Idaho. He works remotely for me 2-3 weeks at a time then spends 2 weeks at the shop. I spent a 4 day trip out there and if it wasn't for my family I would have bought a house that weekend LOL. (Near Boise)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post


    ^^^ Is a tool change through the center back of the machine like this quick enough ? (watch to the end of video).

    Dan Katayama of Enshu USA put this together. Frame of machine is like a bridge style. High torque - at low end for spindle of 90 NM. 30 taper machine.

    Mits 850 S control.

    Originally I think it was "pitched" at around $170K but not sure what and how or whether Mr. Katayama followed through on the machine ? (that was a couple of years ago).

    @dstryr SPindle wise what would you ideally want ? From your posts I gather you are doing more Titanium(s) and lower end torque / "grunt" is needed ?

    Just kinda interested in what RPMs and materials you may need to "process" on said small footprint 5 axis.

    Interesting about future automation options.

    I dooooo think there are few gaps currently in the market space for such machines. Especially sub 400 mm 5 axis machines (sim 5) with scales.

    Maybe Brother have something up their sleeve yet to be rolled out ?
    This machine would be for small parts only. Anything that requires major material removal will go on 1 of the other 4 machines.
    ~15k Rpm would be more than enough. Local makino rep mentioned this machine which is interesting....

    N2-5XA | Makino

    Supposed to get a quote tomorrow... 2 machines locally at one shop who loves them...



    I'll check out the ENSHU

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    This machine would be for small parts only. Anything that requires major material removal will go on 1 of the other 4 machines.
    ~15k Rpm would be more than enough. Local makino rep mentioned this machine which is interesting....

    N2-5XA | Makino

    Supposed to get a quote tomorrow... 2 machines locally at one shop who loves them...



    I'll check out the ENSHU
    The n2-5xa looks incredibly sweet (Horizontal as you know) some incredible design has gone into that machine.

    They "Bill it" as for machining near-net sized parts so that might be a really great fit for you. Depending on prices.

    I'm in the middle of redoubling my efforts with Makino … Just need to pull focus when I'm less "fuzzy".

    For sure I'd be interested in comparing possible deals ~ They (Makino sales channels) seem very "On it" and forward thinking (at the moment) so some good prices could be possible ?

    On the D200Z as you know there are some really interesting tool and pallet options.

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    Dennis. Why not an S700 27k? I have installed quite a few down here. It is an amazing spindle. It can go all day long at 27k and still go to town hogging with a 1/2" end mill. One of our clients down here finally gave it a try last year and now have 8 with more coming. All with tilting rotaries.

    20191204_100240.jpg

    20180126_140654.jpg

    This was my test piece when the 27k came out about 6 years ago. I wanted to see how it would work out for job shops. I liked it!

    2013-04-29-09.05.09.jpg

    Cycle time was 4 minutes flat with 7 tools. 5" face mill, 1/2" rougher, 1/2" finisher, 3/32 end mill for floor pockets, 0-80 drill and tap (58 places) chamfer mill break all edges and chamfer tapped holes. Part is about 10" x 7". Outside contour is 1.25" deep, pocket is 1" deep. This machine is used for steel, stainless, Ti, Inconel every day. 0 to 27k in .6 seconds, 0 to 20k in about .2 seconds. Solid.

    In regards to the Makino, as much as I respect that builder, the one you mentioned is hsk-40a. That right there is a huge turn off to me. Brother had that on the 32a, 22a and 32B. I was not impressed. What is the point at 20k rpm? It has a much smaller envelope than S700 too. 14 or 21 tools, no benefit there. Solid track record with S700 27k with 100s if not 1000s installed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Looking into something smaller / faster to run cheaper parts then throwing on Grob / Yasda.
    Concerned about chip to chip time. This medcenter doesn't look super fast from the videos..

    Also looking into Brother S500 with 5 axis table, Robodrill with 5 axis table, possibly other options.
    Trying to find something small footprint with work area of around 8" and fast. ~30-40 tools would be ideal .
    If DMG Mori wasn't such a cluster I'd really like a milltap 700 with the 5ax table but trust them as far as I could throw the brochure....
    why not matsuura?

    never mind, just saw the price point thing. there should be some used LX160's out there for a nice price. if the envelope would work, ours has been badass!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Dennis. Why not an S700 27k? I have installed quite a few down here. It is an amazing spindle. It can go all day long at 27k and still go to town hogging with a 1/2" end mill. One of our clients down here finally gave it a try last year and now have 8 with more coming. All with tilting rotaries.
    If he's doing 2" cube parts, why would you want to go up to the S700 as opposed to the S500 he was looking at in post #1?

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    Someone on a previous thread about small footprint mills raved about their Willemin mill.


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