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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    Someone on a previous thread about small footprint mills raved about their Willemin mill.
    Definitely worth taking a look at, but I would expect them to be up there with the other European builders on price. I have seen one of their machines in person and the owner loved it, but it was not cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    If he's doing 2" cube parts, why would you want to go up to the S700 as opposed to the S500 he was looking at in post #1?
    Yamazen stocks the 27k as a S700. The S500 will be special order with 27k. Price essentially the same. You give up some floor space but gain table space which most clients like for putting a vise or two on along with the tilting rotary. Our client considered Willemin last year at the company that ordered the eight 27k machines. those have their place. This work has no turning and they were able to get essentially 4 spindles for the price of one and make about 6 times as many parts. Also maintenance cost with Brother is practically nil in comparison.
    Last edited by BROTHERFRANK; 04-02-2020 at 11:42 AM.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Dennis. Why not an S700 27k? I have installed quite a few down here. It is an amazing spindle. It can go all day long at 27k and still go to town hogging with a 1/2" end mill. One of our clients down here finally gave it a try last year and now have 8 with more coming. All with tilting rotaries.

    Attachment 283577

    Attachment 283578

    This was my test piece when the 27k came out about 6 years ago. I wanted to see how it would work out for job shops. I liked it!

    Attachment 283579

    Cycle time was 4 minutes flat with 7 tools. 5" face mill, 1/2" rougher, 1/2" finisher, 3/32 end mill for floor pockets, 0-80 drill and tap (58 places) chamfer mill break all edges and chamfer tapped holes. Part is about 10" x 7". Outside contour is 1.25" deep, pocket is 1" deep. This machine is used for steel, stainless, Ti, Inconel every day. 0 to 27k in .6 seconds, 0 to 20k in about .2 seconds. Solid.

    In regards to the Makino, as much as I respect that builder, the one you mentioned is hsk-40a. That right there is a huge turn off to me. Brother had that on the 32a, 22a and 32B. I was not impressed. What is the point at 20k rpm? It has a much smaller envelope than S700 too. 14 or 21 tools, no benefit there. Solid track record with S700 27k with 100s if not 1000s installed.
    Thanks for posting that at least for my peripheral benefit … So I'm kinda surprised at

    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    "Cycle time was 4 minutes flat with 7 tools. 5" face mill, 1/2" rougher,"
    +

    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    This machine is used for steel, stainless, Ti, Inconel every day
    ^^^ This...

    I assume A2 tool (hardened) steel no problem / issues of rigidity "biting back" ? I think we had a good thread about that recently ?

    Is there toque curve / basic spec on that 27K rpm spindle ? I remember you showed some nice contouring work in Aluminum on a high speed spindle that had nice / good surface finishes. At the time you guys were opposite or near the DATRON booth so that was kind relevant (IMTS year ???) .

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    2nd tool in this video is an OSG Disc Cutter 125mm :
    YouTube

    Cycle time of 4 minutes was essentially one minute to rough, one minute to finish, one minute to drill and tap (8000 rpm) 58 holes and one minute to chamfer. I was thrilled to say the least. The 27K spindles and 10K High Torques are my favorites.
    When it comes to machining any material on a Brother, it all comes down to 'can I hold the part in my hand' or does it fit in a shoe box or pizza box? Many of our clients machine Inconel, tool steels, Ti ... every day. The eight 27ks we recently installed enjoy a steady diet of 17-4 H900.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    why not matsuura?

    never mind, just saw the price point thing. there should be some used LX160's out there for a nice price. if the envelope would work, ours has been badass!
    You say that now until you have to replace the spindle in that thing and it costs more than you paid for the machine LOL

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    YouTube
    well if you're quoting a new machine then here is another to consider.
    100% duty cycle 50k RPM spindle
    very compact with equally compact automation available. Think a demo machine is available too...
    just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkd View Post
    YouTube
    well if you're quoting a new machine then here is another to consider.
    100% duty cycle 50k RPM spindle
    very compact with equally compact automation available. Think a demo machine is available too...
    just saying.
    I'm sure its badass but I already have Brother , Fanuc from 4 different builders now and Siemens... Not looking to throw a wild card Heidenhain in the shop

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    I'm sure its badass but I already have Brother , Fanuc from 4 different builders now and Siemens... Not looking to throw a wild card Heidenhain in the shop
    then order it with a siemens or fanuc control.
    all controls aren't available with all models.
    The P500u is coming out with a fanuc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkd View Post
    then order it with a siemens or fanuc control.
    all controls aren't available with all models.
    The P500u is coming out with a fanuc.
    I dont think is possible unless special order and dont want to special order anything... Nothing ever good came from having a special one off of anything

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    You say that now until you have to replace the spindle in that thing and it costs more than you paid for the machine LOL
    LMAO! not quite more than what we paid, but not too far either...
    still got a bitchin deal. with simulation i'm hoping we wont be getting any crashes (knock on wood...) so as long as we keep the tools balanced no reason it shouldnt last long, especially considering what we're using it for is super light loads.

    either way, i'm a huge fan of matsuura stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post

    either way, i'm a huge fan of matsuura stuff.
    compared to Haas and DMG Mori... not setting the bar very high :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    compared to Haas and DMG Mori... not setting the bar very high :P
    hey, fuck you buddy! LOL
    mr grob baller...

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  20. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    I dont think is possible unless special order and dont want to special order anything... Nothing ever good came from having a special one off of anything
    I hear ya!
    Doesn't look like the smallest 200u machine is offered in anything but Heidy, so I miss spoke/sorry.
    It's the 'P' series where you'll see control flexibility as a cataloged offering. Fanuc is coming to this series along with currently available HH and seimens.

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    2nd tool in this video is an OSG Disc Cutter 125mm :
    YouTube

    Cycle time of 4 minutes was essentially one minute to rough, one minute to finish, one minute to drill and tap (8000 rpm) 58 holes and one minute to chamfer. I was thrilled to say the least. The 27K spindles and 10K High Torques are my favorites.
    When it comes to machining any material on a Brother, it all comes down to 'can I hold the part in my hand' or does it fit in a shoe box or pizza box? Many of our clients machine Inconel, tool steels, Ti ... every day. The eight 27ks we recently installed enjoy a steady diet of 17-4 H900.
    That's amazing , like the hand, shoe box , pizza box "Metric" analogy.

    Still with that video I literally cannot believe my eyes / speed is completely incomprehensible to me ?

    No editing, not undercranking , no frames pulled ? It's literally that fast ?

    Does it have to go that fast ? ;-)

    Do they not make a slowdio ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkd View Post
    YouTube
    well if you're quoting a new machine then here is another to consider.
    100% duty cycle 50k RPM spindle
    very compact with equally compact automation available. Think a demo machine is available too...
    just saying.
    That's a great demo , I'll have to check that out the HSM 200U LP (DD motors etc. looks really spendy ) nice design of knuckle and way it moves.

    will dig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    hey, fuck you buddy! LOL
    mr grob baller...
    I was thinking how many Ferrari's can you get out three or four Grobs , and then how much of a Grob spindle farm do you need before you have nothing left to buy but a Ferrari

    There is a second hand Grob 350 that's floating around for not too much money.

    It's a good sign that "your" Grobs can only run your high $ parts and you stream off for less intensive parts for brutally efficient compact machines maximize juice and floor space.

    Amazing.

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    I have no experience with the Medcenter, but I do work at a shop with a bunch of Kitamuras and I have owned and worked with lots of different machines in the past. Personally, I would not buy a Kitamura for several reasons:

    1) The control is buggy. It does weird stuff, like you load the probe and touch off a part, then load your program, hit reset, and the program starts and cranks the probe up to 15k RPM thinking it's on the first tool of the program.

    2) They have an "Arumatik" control based on a Mitsubishi 850 under the hood. It's the latest and greatest from Mitsubishi, yet even with the memory maxed out, it's still only got 2MB of RAM. Pitiful and shameful.

    3) The NC unit itself is fast in processing code, but it's slow in other ways... it sits and waits for a second when you do things like turn on the high-speed machining, or when you run the tool break check, or run a probing cycle. It's just sluggish and really impacts chip-to-chip time.

    The machines haven't seemed to be all that reliable. Two new Kitty's this year and both have had extensive service calls and repairs, one of them major requiring months of repair attempts by the manufacturer, ultimately resulting in a new machine being built to replace the one on the floor.

    Just my .02. Some things I like, the machine is accurate and can take a hefty cut... but I don't think the compromises are worth it. And don't get me started on a Mitsu control that's skinned to be just as clunky and counter intuitive as Fanuc... like putting the interior from a Toyota Corolla into a Lamborghini - insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I have no experience with the Medcenter, but I do work at a shop with a bunch of Kitamuras and I have owned and worked with lots of different machines in the past. Personally, I would not buy a Kitamura for several reasons:

    1) The control is buggy. It does weird stuff, like you load the probe and touch off a part, then load your program, hit reset, and the program starts and cranks the probe up to 15k RPM thinking it's on the first tool of the program.

    2) They have an "Arumatik" control based on a Mitsubishi 850 under the hood. It's the latest and greatest from Mitsubishi, yet even with the memory maxed out, it's still only got 2MB of RAM. Pitiful and shameful.

    3) The NC unit itself is fast in processing code, but it's slow in other ways... it sits and waits for a second when you do things like turn on the high-speed machining, or when you run the tool break check, or run a probing cycle. It's just sluggish and really impacts chip-to-chip time.

    The machines haven't seemed to be all that reliable. Two new Kitty's this year and both have had extensive service calls and repairs, one of them major requiring months of repair attempts by the manufacturer, ultimately resulting in a new machine being built to replace the one on the floor.

    Just my .02. Some things I like, the machine is accurate and can take a hefty cut... but I don't think the compromises are worth it. And don't get me started on a Mitsu control that's skinned to be just as clunky and counter intuitive as Fanuc... like putting the interior from a Toyota Corolla into a Lamborghini - insanity.
    seen a few of their machines at a local show, wasnt very impressed with fit/finish and overall feel of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkd View Post
    YouTube
    well if you're quoting a new machine then here is another to consider.
    100% duty cycle 50k RPM spindle
    very compact with equally compact automation available. Think a demo machine is available too...
    just saying.
    Ok going through the PDF / catalog , definitely seems like a "wonder" machine , and seems like they take heat removal from linear motors really seriously (as they should).

    travels 160 x 160 x 200 (mm).

    That machine has to be at least $400K

    really nice design seems like they did everything !

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    I'll bite: apologies up front.
    For a guy not want to add another control to the shop where he's asking about adding another control to the shop......
    Lol
    Kitties aren't fanook anymore

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