Kitamura Mycenter 1 Retrofit?

Rockswell4Life · Jul 5, 2018

I recently bought a Kitamura Mycenter 1 1985. I was told it was working but some rats chewed into the motor cabling. The spindle is a BT35 and the controller is a 3M Fanuc with a 6K spindle. The Fanuc servos are yellow caps.

Let me just preface this with: I am not new to the CNC world and have done lots of programming, macros, repairs, system adjustments on many different machines (mostly Fanuc).

So my questions are.

In your opinion should I just get the cables patched and get the machine running or spend the time and the money on doing a retrofit with a new controller and panel? Why?

Have you seen anyone using the ClearPath servos? ClearPath - Teknic

Do you know of any good reasonably price retrofit kits? How much do you think I should spend or have to spend?

Do you think it would be cheaper just to source all the parts for a kit myself, would you recommend any suppliers?

My Situation:
I am starting a machine/ fabrication shop on some family property. Not in a position where the machine needs to operate now (or anytime soon). Really need 3D capabilities (which can be "faked" in drip feed). Looking for a long term investment to hold up for the next 10 years. The machine will be disassembled anyways for a complete refurbish. The machine is already delivered and ready for the refurbish. To anyone who thinks I should have gone for another machine, I paid $750 for a box way cnc milling machine.

Thank you for the help. If interested I will be creating some kind of walkthrough to share with others thinking about the same thing.

moonlight machine · Jul 5, 2018

Rockswell4Life said:
I recently bought a Kitamura Mycenter 1 1985. I was told it was working but some rats chewed into the motor cabling. The spindle is a BT35 and the controller is a 3M Fanuc with a 6K spindle. The Fanuc servos are yellow caps.

Let me just preface this with: I am not new to the CNC world and have done lots of programming, macros, repairs, system adjustments on many different machines (mostly Fanuc).

So my questions are.

In your opinion should I just get the cables patched and get the machine running or spend the time and the money on doing a retrofit with a new controller and panel? Why?

Do you know of any good reasonably price retrofit kits? How much do you think I should spend or have to spend?

Do you think it would be cheaper just to source all the parts for a kit myself, would you recommend any suppliers?

My Situation:
I am starting a machine/ fabrication shop on some family property. Not in a position where the machine needs to operate now (or anytime soon). Really need 3D capabilities (which can be "faked" in drip feed). Looking for a long term investment to hold up for the next 10 years. The machine will be disassembled anyways for a complete refurbish. The machine is already delivered and ready for the refurbish. To anyone who thinks I should have gone for another machine, I paid $750 for a box way cnc milling machine.

Thank you for the help. If interested I will be creating some kind of walkthrough to share with others thinking about the same thing.[/QUOTE

For what it would cost to replace that control with anything decent you will have at least 20x - 30x the original investment. Yeah I know mach does not cost that much. To equal the original control you are not going to do it with shit like mach or anything else in that price range. Fix what you have.

Rockswell4Life · Jul 6, 2018

Thanks for the reply and your opinion. What do you think it would cost to match or update the machine control?

Toolbert · Jul 6, 2018

In 2010 I bought a 1984 Mycenter 1 for $3000 which I thought was a fair price at the time. It was functional, clean, complete, with tooling, manuals, and an upgraded ROM that enabled drip feed and helical interpolation, but it was too much trouble to depend on it, and deal with the 3M control, for revenue parts. So then I bought a 1998 Fadal, which meets my needs perfectly. I was unable to get $750 for the Kitamura and ultimately traded it away for a favor.

My original intent was to upgrade the 3M control, but the tech I spoke with about it advised new controls don't play well with the Fanuc DC servo drives, that replacing the motors and drives as well would cost more than buying a perfectly usable well-tooled Fadal. I think that was reasonable advice for a business, and so my constructive suggestion, as it were, is to fix and use it as it is.

Garwood · Jul 6, 2018

If you can't fix it scrap it and move on.

Rockswell4Life · Jul 6, 2018

Fair enough, thank you. I think that I will be getting a lot of advice in the same vein here. However, I do believe there has been a significant advancement in electronics and price points in recent years. Have you heard of or seen anyone use ClearPath servos? (ClearPath - Teknic)

Strostkovy · Jul 6, 2018

I saw that on craigslist and almost bought it, but didn't have the money to blow on it.

If it's just chewed up wiring, (and possibly fuses from people trying to power it after) I was going to just fix up the wiring.

Post some pictures of the inside once you get it unloaded.

Rockswell4Life · Jul 6, 2018

Strostkovy said:
I saw that on craigslist and almost bought it, but didn't have the money to blow on it.

If it's just chewed up wiring, (and possibly fuses from people trying to power it after) I was going to just fix up the wiring.

Post some pictures of the inside once you get it unloaded.

I have not powered it on but from the previous owner I was told it was only throwing encoder alarms.

Strostkovy · Jul 6, 2018

Rockswell4Life said:
I have not powered it on but from the previous owner I was told it was only throwing encoder alarms.

It should be extremely easy to repair. If nothing else you should repair it, use it, and evaluate whether you are happy with the controls or not.

machtool · Jul 6, 2018

Rockswell4Life said:
I paid $750 for a box way cnc milling machine.

You'd need to confirm if it has Turcite lined ways. 1985 was on the cusp of being cast on cast, or cast on Induction / Flame hardened rails.

If it's Turcite. That's a long time for a glue bond. It falls off given enough time. I'd note you mention the next 10 years.

You can tell by pulling the slide wipers off. If its lined with Turcite, you should be able to make it out.

Should be mentioned, your machine is currently 33 years old.

Regards Phil.

Ianagos · Jul 6, 2018

I recommend patch it up clean it up and sell it. Then start looking for something you can rely on for the next ten years.
Or patch it up clean it and keep it and keep your eyes out for another newer machine.

Rigor · Jul 6, 2018

Ianagos said:
I recommend patch it up clean it up and sell it. Then start looking for something you can rely on for the next ten years.
Or patch it up clean it and keep it and keep your eyes out for another newer machine.

How the fuck is this helping the OP in anyway????

Fix the wiring issue. Fire it up. Encoder error probably due to burnt out bulbs or leds in the encoder.
Confirm the ways are in good condition. Doesn't matter if cast on cast or turcite. If it looks good run it. DC servos are reliable provided the brushes are in good condition. These are easy to check.

You want to upgrade? To what?? Linux? Mach4? Or any other DIY controller?

For now, keep what you have. Run the Fanuc controller. You maybe surprised at some of the features it has built in. Get well acquainted with it.

After that make money and put most of it in the bank. Look for a replacement if you want or need better.

Too many retrofits get flushed down the toilet because of poor planning and not realizing how expensive parts can be. Most are never truly brought back into service with the performance of the original .

norb · Jul 6, 2018

Patch it up and use it. Don't throw any more money into it. If you need to do surfacing buy a more modern machine that you don't have to drip feed. In the end it is an old machine and at some point you will need support for some obscure problem which may not be available.

Bobw · Jul 6, 2018

At least its a Fanuc machine, and not a yasnac..

What I would do.. If I had that machine sitting on a trailer..

I'd try to get it running.. I'd fix the wiring and fire it up...

I'd leave it right on the trailer..

If I find I need to dump some real money into it,
I'd strip all the Fanuc stuff out of it and sell
it on e-bay, and drive the machine straight to the scrap yard.

It could be a decent little machine, if it runs.. I wouldn't waste time and
effort trying to refurb it.. Spend your time making money and upgrade.
Having an open machine is going to get really old, really fast.

If it doesn't run... There is no way in hell I would try and retrofit a control..
If it was a 50 foot long, 100 ton machine, then we'd talk..

But its a standard sized
machine, nothing special about it, you could dump a ton of time and money and effort
into it, and its still going to be, at best, a standard sized machine that you would be
lucky to get your $750 back.

Bobw · Jul 6, 2018

Rockswell4Life said:
However, I do believe there has been a significant advancement in electronics and price points in recent years. Have you heard of or seen anyone use ClearPath servos? (ClearPath - Teknic)

So those are the axis motor with built in drives??? Either way, $4 grand for 3 motors... Now you are almost
$5k into this thing and you still don't have a control.....

For not much more than $5k, you can drop a Fadal on your floor that is 10-15 years newer and very very
well supported. And if you need to dump it, it will be worth more than $750..

Guest · Jul 6, 2018

As others said a retrofit is a waste of money and time. Retrofitting is for someone who wants a project. Give repairing it a shot, but do not throw a lot of money at it. Another option if you have space is to part it out on E-bay. Pull all the high dollar items and list separately and then run a parting out ad listing some individual item to draw inquiries on specific things. There are plenty of people looking for Fanuc 3M parts. I got a little over $5k in the period of a year for the pieces of a dead Mycenter Zero with an Yasnac MX3, as it sat it would not have been worth $1500.

Ianagos · Jul 6, 2018

Rigor said:
How the fuck is this helping the OP in anyway????

Fix the wiring issue. Fire it up. Encoder error probably due to burnt out bulbs or leds in the encoder.
Confirm the ways are in good condition. Doesn't matter if cast on cast or turcite. If it looks good run it. DC servos are reliable provided the brushes are in good condition. These are easy to check.

You want to upgrade? To what?? Linux? Mach4? Or any other DIY controller?

For now, keep what you have. Run the Fanuc controller. You maybe surprised at some of the features it has built in. Get well acquainted with it.

After that make money and put most of it in the bank. Look for a replacement if you want or need better.

Too many retrofits get flushed down the toilet because of poor planning and not realizing how expensive parts can be. Most are never truly brought back into service with the performance of the original .

You literally just said what I said I’m more words he asked if he should retrofit it or not I said no. I didn’t feel lole I need to tell him to do basic stuff as he said he was experienced.

You suggested clean it up then look for a replacement. So if I didn’t help the op at all by your logic neither did you.

And actually that seemed to be everybody’s answer. Mostly because it’s the most sensible one.

Rigor · Jul 6, 2018

Ianagos said:
You literally just said what I said I’m more words he asked if he should retrofit it or not I said no. I didn’t feel lole I need to tell him to do basic stuff as he said he was experienced.

You suggested clean it up then look for a replacement. So if I didn’t help the op at all by your logic neither did you.

And actually that seemed to be everybody’s answer. Mostly because it’s the most sensible one.

My logic fix it. Run it. If you need more than replace it.

Your logic ..fix it and..just get rid of it.

Ianagos · Jul 6, 2018

Rigor said:
My logic fix it. Run it. If you need more than replace it.

Your logic ..fix it and..just get rid of it.

He said he needed 3D surfacing and needed a solid machine for the next ten years. This is not that therefore get something else.

Guest · Jul 6, 2018

Bobw said:
At least its a Fanuc machine, and not a yasnac..

What I would do.. If I had that machine sitting on a trailer..

I'd try to get it running.. I'd fix the wiring and fire it up...

I'd leave it right on the trailer..

If I find I need to dump some real money into it,
I'd strip all the Fanuc stuff out of it and sell
it on e-bay, and drive the machine straight to the scrap yard.

I think it all depends on available space for the machine and the rigging time and costs. My pile of crap was a little newer, but since it was a ZERO and a Yasnac not worth much more as it sat. Somebody paid me $300 for the drawbar, you never know. I parted out another machine other than the Kitamura, I sold items I thought were worth scrap for nice money and never sold items I thought were valuable, you never know. I gave it a time limit of one year, then I take the picked carcass to the recycler.

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