Nerv
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2016
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Hi Everyone,
I have exponentially more experience with CNC mills and do five axis milling with Deckel Maho machines at this point. We have plenty of larger turning we farm out that we would like to do in-house and have two lathes readily available in storage but only room for one of them. I haven't been able to run either and I would like to hear what members that have actually run these machines think of them to help finalize the choice for us.
The lathes are both slant bed FAPT enabled Fanuc 10T controlled box-way machines so physically they are very comparable.
One is a Daewoo Puma 12L (Long version - 1050mm Z travel, 3" through bore) and the other is a Mori Seiki SL-6B (6.25" Big through bore version with Howa Pneumatic chuck).
I know typically Mori Seiki has a great reputation for this generation of turning center but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask anyway, most of what we will be doing is ID and OD API thread work from solid round bar on parts that range from 3" to 12" or more.
The Daewoo is a lighter lathe at around 15,600 lb and it has a belt/gearbox/belt/spindle drive system opposed to the heavier (20,000lb) gear driven Mori.
The Daewoo has a A2-8 hydraulic actuated (via drawbar) 12" chuck that can spin up to 2500 rpm whereas the Mori is A2-11 and maxes out at just over 1000 rpm. Daewoo max 1000 ish ft/lbs torque, Mori 2292 ft lbs. I think the Mori has at least 1 more gear than the Puma does.
The Mori has not only less Z travel (850mm) but the big air chuck eats up the distance between centers even more. I've never used an air chuck either so not sure what drawbacks there may be or if it might be a smart idea to just throw on a manual A2-11 4 jaw to get the Z back and keep the big bore?
The Mori has a programmable belt drive tailstock whereas the Puma is a manual drag along tailstock.
Probably the biggest pain about the Mori is the chip conveyor that must be removed from the end and cannot roll out with the coolant tank. I've read people suggest coolant touching the casting can cause accuracy problems but then I've also heard the SL series of this vintage are some of the best lathes made? Just the access needed for the chip conveyor in terms of floor space is a negative for the Mori SL. The Puma tank pulls out from the front and the conveyor can be removed by being lifted out by above or pulled out from the side. Most newer slant bed lathes look like they are built on the same architecture as the Puma, the Mori of that vintage is unique to them, but they ran with that casting design and changed the sheet metal for many years afterward.
Will having a max of 1000 rpm be a serious issue for finish on those smaller diameters? Threading is typically performed pretty slow anyway isn't it? Some pretty large drilling may come up 1.5" or more... but I imagine both lathes could handle it no problem.
A buddy near me has a big flat bed Haas with a 10" bore that has turned away some of the smaller threading work I would be doing because he said his max RPM made it not sensible to do the work. With 1000 rpm available what is the smallest dia I can go realistically in steel? 4140, 4330... I have a feeling someone is going to mention the SFM recommendation of the inserts being used, I'm not sure what happens if the part is run slower than these values? I have a Tree UP 1000 lathe with a 4000 rpm spindle and I think 1 ft lb of torque, maybe less. Heh.
Any thoughts, anecdotes or opinions are welcome on this. At this point we don't have nearly enough turning to justify a new purchase and would like make the most of what we have available.
Dave @ Nerv
I have exponentially more experience with CNC mills and do five axis milling with Deckel Maho machines at this point. We have plenty of larger turning we farm out that we would like to do in-house and have two lathes readily available in storage but only room for one of them. I haven't been able to run either and I would like to hear what members that have actually run these machines think of them to help finalize the choice for us.
The lathes are both slant bed FAPT enabled Fanuc 10T controlled box-way machines so physically they are very comparable.
One is a Daewoo Puma 12L (Long version - 1050mm Z travel, 3" through bore) and the other is a Mori Seiki SL-6B (6.25" Big through bore version with Howa Pneumatic chuck).
I know typically Mori Seiki has a great reputation for this generation of turning center but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask anyway, most of what we will be doing is ID and OD API thread work from solid round bar on parts that range from 3" to 12" or more.
The Daewoo is a lighter lathe at around 15,600 lb and it has a belt/gearbox/belt/spindle drive system opposed to the heavier (20,000lb) gear driven Mori.
The Daewoo has a A2-8 hydraulic actuated (via drawbar) 12" chuck that can spin up to 2500 rpm whereas the Mori is A2-11 and maxes out at just over 1000 rpm. Daewoo max 1000 ish ft/lbs torque, Mori 2292 ft lbs. I think the Mori has at least 1 more gear than the Puma does.
The Mori has not only less Z travel (850mm) but the big air chuck eats up the distance between centers even more. I've never used an air chuck either so not sure what drawbacks there may be or if it might be a smart idea to just throw on a manual A2-11 4 jaw to get the Z back and keep the big bore?
The Mori has a programmable belt drive tailstock whereas the Puma is a manual drag along tailstock.
Probably the biggest pain about the Mori is the chip conveyor that must be removed from the end and cannot roll out with the coolant tank. I've read people suggest coolant touching the casting can cause accuracy problems but then I've also heard the SL series of this vintage are some of the best lathes made? Just the access needed for the chip conveyor in terms of floor space is a negative for the Mori SL. The Puma tank pulls out from the front and the conveyor can be removed by being lifted out by above or pulled out from the side. Most newer slant bed lathes look like they are built on the same architecture as the Puma, the Mori of that vintage is unique to them, but they ran with that casting design and changed the sheet metal for many years afterward.
Will having a max of 1000 rpm be a serious issue for finish on those smaller diameters? Threading is typically performed pretty slow anyway isn't it? Some pretty large drilling may come up 1.5" or more... but I imagine both lathes could handle it no problem.
A buddy near me has a big flat bed Haas with a 10" bore that has turned away some of the smaller threading work I would be doing because he said his max RPM made it not sensible to do the work. With 1000 rpm available what is the smallest dia I can go realistically in steel? 4140, 4330... I have a feeling someone is going to mention the SFM recommendation of the inserts being used, I'm not sure what happens if the part is run slower than these values? I have a Tree UP 1000 lathe with a 4000 rpm spindle and I think 1 ft lb of torque, maybe less. Heh.
Any thoughts, anecdotes or opinions are welcome on this. At this point we don't have nearly enough turning to justify a new purchase and would like make the most of what we have available.
Dave @ Nerv
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