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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by machtool View Post

    <snip>
    Whats the chances, your bloke actually re-instated the original parameters, just before he came running in screaming its working?
    That's my hunch too...

    And I was wondering about "replaced chip set"... What are the chances of that going well / correctly (unless the the bloke has serious skills with electronics. ).

    And the "Wrong chip" all these years … I mean come on ???? (If I understand OP correctly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I once helped figure out an issue with an older Fanuc AC spindle drive where the ROM was incorrect. The user had bought the board off ebay and installed it not realizing that while the boards were interchangeable, the ROM was specific to motor type.
    Unless they sourced the wrong board a long time ago... And switched it out... Can a new machine come with the right board but the wrong ROM ? (Ye Gads, I hope not :-/ ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Somewhere I must have missed it, was this drive replaced during your repairs? A power flux wouldnt have caused a chip to change. So glad to see you have it working again. In the Sherlock Holmes series it is stated that the answer is always elementary once you know it.

    Charles
    OTOH squirrely and finicky electronics are particularly sensitive to rolling brown outs... For sensitive equipment we have to use power conditioners and UPS (Uninteruptable power supplies when we can). In such cases with the rolling brown outs are more destructive to high end electronics / IC's than a regular power outage and surge "Back on".

  4. #124
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    You last few guys seem to have forgotten that he had the drive rebuilt by TIE.
    Hence the reason that TIE was mentioned in his post.

    Now I have no clue what the diff would be, but I am guessing that this guy knows if something had come in from TIE in the last cpl of days or not eh?



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  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Unless they sourced the wrong board a long time ago... And switched it out... Can a new machine come with the right board but the wrong ROM ? (Ye Gads, I hope not :-/ ).
    On the generation of drive I referenced, when one got a replacement board from Fanuc, the ROM socket was vacant and the tech had to install the ROM from the old drive as well as initialize the drive memory and load the drive parameters.

    The OP's drive is a couple generations newer. I'm not sure if they have a ROM in them.

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  8. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by partsproduction View Post
    The first exchange done by the Fanuc tech was a swap of the spindle drive AO6B-6082-H215#H510, with what turned out later to be a rebuilt SD, . He also replaced the power supply AO6B-6087-H115 He wrote in the report that he got error codes 750 and 401 on each axis. After that, he wrote that he replaced A06B-6079-H206 to see if that was causing the alarms. They were not stopped. He said then that the alarms are most likely caused by a bad main board A16B-3200-0020.
    The next day (Day 3) he says he again replaced the SA A06B-6082-H215-#510 WITH ANOTHER new unit to rule it out again. He says he performed an SRAM and PMC backup, then replaced the SRAM A20B-2901-0765 and refreshed it's memory. He swapped cables around to determine if it was a cable issue. This still got error codes 750 and 751, He replaced the parameters with another set (backup from this TW-30), that caused other alarms. He found that P4054 (Velocity loop integral gain) was set at 32700 which varied from the original value of 50. (I had backed up two sets of parameters many years earlier, the original and this set referred to which was changed by another Fanuc tech, which did solve that problem at the time and which worked fine until this big electrical spike.) This got codes 750 and 751.
    He stated that "we were able to zero return the axis but got spindle alarm 12 when the motor was turned on. He identified that as has been said here earlier as the DC link overcurent. He stated that he put the original SRAM module and servo amp.
    At that time the original tech, my friend, returned from vacation and replaced the cables to the motor, no joy.

    Later, my regular tech and personal friend was running through things trying to rule out things he, and I believe in consultation with someone at TIE, they agreed that the swapped SD needed to be checked out. I later got it back with $2500+ repairs done, and apparently final checked good. It was after this that my friend started trying less obvious possibilities. I feel sorry for the him and only wish I could somehow help. Plus it would be kind of nice if the lathe was running again.
    Thanks again,
    parts

    I guess this is the most inclussive/informative post regarding the drive.

    So it looks like Fanuc swapped the drive out 2wice, and then TIE dinked with it some more.


    I have swapped spindle drives before and never swapped any internal components.
    I don't think that I have ever swapped out a "Main" spindle drive tho.
    Just sub-spindle and drive(s) associated with live tools and indexing - as opposed to "servo-ing" (and holding position).


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  10. #127
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    Default Lathe still down!

    Older generation Mitsubishi spindle drives used in Mazak’s (FR-SE and FR-SF) use ROM chips.

    And you have to swap those out if replacing the drive, keeping the originals on the new drive.

    AFAIK, the microchips control all aspects of the drive operation, and are specific to the type of machine.

    Using the wrong chip set can result in erroneous errors, as the drive may see false alarms like over-current and over-voltage.

    The Mits drives have a lot of parameters too, that are specific to each machine. But those are on one of the microchips...

    ToolCat

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  12. #128
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    Somewhere I must have missed it, was this drive replaced during your repairs? A power flux wouldnt have caused a chip to change.
    Lots of verbage, hard to read it all while living a busy life. The original disaster that started it all was the power surge. Somewhere between calling my first repairman on scene and the last guy shouting "It's Working!!!" a spindle drive was replaced. In fact, I think the replaced drive was also sent off to be analyzed, but no one saw that the drive amp was not built for a lathe, but for something else. I still don't, and probably never will know, what that drive was built for, nor which person installed it in my lathe.
    I believe ever since the wrong drive was installed the people who tried to solve the mystery looked past the model number of the drive, assuming whoever put it in knew what they were doing, but who knows.

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    And I was wondering about "replaced chip set"... What are the chances of that going well / correctly (unless the the bloke has serious skills with electronics. ).

    And the "Wrong chip" all these years … I mean come on ???? (If I understand OP correctly).
    I saw the chip he pulled out after getting the new chip from TIE, it looked like it had about 3 numbers with a space followed by 4 other numbers, I should have taken a photo because he said "Don't take that out (Of the box) I have to send it back".
    He probably did have to reconfigure the machine, and now that Vancbiker mentioned ROM, yes, that's what it looked like to my simple eyes, like a PC's ROM chip, but maybe bigger.

    Oh, and my repairman had me save the parameters when I got the machine so long ago. After about 5 years a problem developed and a guy from Fanuc changed the motor parameters to get it to run again, but we saved that set of parameters too. I didn't think to ask my tech which set he reinstalled, sorry, it does make sense he'd have to. I'll look and see Monday.

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  16. #130
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    Personally I am really glad for you that you got it going, thanks for sharing this information might save someone elses bacon in the future.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I guess this is the most inclussive/informative post regarding the drive.

    So it looks like Fanuc swapped the drive out 2wice, and then TIE dinked with it some more.


    I have swapped spindle drives before and never swapped any internal components.
    I don't think that I have ever swapped out a "Main" spindle drive tho.
    Just sub-spindle and drive(s) associated with live tools and indexing - as opposed to "servo-ing" (and holding position).


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I have replaced the main spindle drive on one of our lathes, similar age, O-TC with serial spindle, idk the part number off the top of my head but I can check.

    For sure, at least on that system, everything is set by parameter on the nc, and loaded to the drive at runtime. In fact, every fanuc amp that I have ever touched works like this, but I have never been near any really old ones.

    However, I think it's safe to assume that the drives do have some kind of firmware even if it's not machine specific. When all communications between the drive and the nc are performed over a serial link, there is going to be a microcontroller and a rom in there at the very least. Could have been a faulty rom, or the chip that got replaced might have been something else altogether. Impossible to tell with the information we have.

    Maybe some Fanuc amps need different firmware depending on the nc model/version they are hooked up to?

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  20. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by partsproduction View Post
    I saw the chip he pulled out after getting the new chip from TIE, it looked like it had about 3 numbers with a space followed by 4 other numbers, I should have taken a photo because he said "Don't take that out (Of the box) I have to send it back".
    He probably did have to reconfigure the machine, and now that Vancbiker mentioned ROM, yes, that's what it looked like to my simple eyes, like a PC's ROM chip, but maybe bigger.

    Oh, and my repairman had me save the parameters when I got the machine so long ago. After about 5 years a problem developed and a guy from Fanuc changed the motor parameters to get it to run again, but we saved that set of parameters too. I didn't think to ask my tech which set he reinstalled, sorry, it does make sense he'd have to. I'll look and see Monday.
    In your case it's going to be interesting to map out and parse which components needed to be replaced + ( time and labor) and which did not.


    Maybe some of these seemingly unnecessary upgrades gives your machine greater longevity to serve your purposes for your business (in this case) trouble free during your retirement.


    Will be interesting to map out the whole chain of events from: muckspreader + Powerlines ----> finally fixed machine

    And as some have said would be a good 'Share" as we can all learn form these kinds of things.


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    Will be interesting to map out the whole chain of events from: muckspreader + Powerlines ----> finally fixed machine
    It would indeed be interesting, and I'll post the jist of the final report when it's done deleting names of course, but that may not include enough information to answer the question of who installed the wrong spindle drive. I have an opinion that does not rise to description treatment as fact.
    Given what I now know about these things I can be humble enough to know better than to parse out blame, sometimes seemingly bad things just happen for purposes we cannot know. If someone who stocks FANUC components got a drive back which has a chip in it that was a replacement but without any notation how would they know? I guess that's the crux of blame setting as far as that later aspect goes.

    The actual original cause is even more frightening. You hire a 17 year old kid to help set your irrigation lines, paying him $10 an hour, your barely meeting your costs the way things are when suddenly this happens, perhaps a lawsuit labels you, the poor farmer, negligent because you never considered the high tension line (We aren't talking about one of the 200' tall towers here, just a power line running alongside a hyway) and perhaps you had a $10,000 deductible which wipes out your families farm, the last straw. (all purely imaginary)
    I remember as a boy the story of a high school senior near my town who was doing just that, earning summer income setting irrigation lines for a local farmer. He raised one end of one of the aluminum tubes too high and was electrocuted.
    No happy days for that family for a long while, nor is that an isolated story. So yes, it was negligence that the farmer didn't warn his employee. I still feel badly for him, but no matter how it shakes out he needs to know, and it should hurt enough that others learn from it.

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  23. #134
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    You sure we're not neighbors?

    Two brothers (of age) were working with irrigation pipe and for whatever reason - one hit the power line and got juiced.
    The other brother tried to knock him off, and got dead too.

    This is almost 40 yrs ago, but still ....


    I laid pipe back when I was 12 yrs old (about the same time - now that I think about it) but I wasn't working near the high wire lines.
    I guess they were trying to turn the pipe around to orient it on the trailer or field?
    Seems that _ that would be the hard way to turn it around - wouldn't it?
    I mean heck - you can toss it over your head for Petey's sakes.


    Also - I guess that while we get used to the local drop lines to the buildings all being coated, I guess we can forget that the ones coming accrost the field are not?


    So sad...


    ---------------------------

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    If a Brick layer can make a Brick Craphouse, what does a Pipe layer make?


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