Learning Fanuc Mill/Lathe controls - what are my options?

rx8pilot · Nov 30, 2018

Coming from 12 years on Haas machines and now have a new job with all Fanuc controls on Doosan/Daewoo machines.

I have learned the very basics - power up, homing, loading programs, etc. Looking for some good, structured education on the controls at a reasonably deep level. I have been rewarded for learning as many Haas controls tricks as possible and intend to do the same on these Fanuc controls. The machinist currently setting up/running them knows them very well but is TERRIBLE at teaching me.

They are all about 10-15 years old I think - not new and not uselessly ancient either.

Books, courses, YouTube videos? Anything at all is likely to help.

Blakews2217 · Nov 30, 2018

The haas programming is structured very summarily to fanuc programming. That being said, there are differences. The machines I school on are all newer haas mills/lathes and the ones at work are older fanuc controls(about the same age) and a few anilam For basic parts, the programming is the same. All of the haas tricks you’ve picked up will probably not work on any fanuc unless it happens to have the same trick.

Got example. Haas mill code g71 (IIRC, bolt hole circle?) is not available on the miles I work in. As far as the arguments(for a mill a g83 peck drill, Z,R,F,Q are generally what we use and is the same for both) the arguments are pretty much the same, Including g98/g99. If in doubt, run at a clearance plane and see if the program completes. Some controls have the ability to graph (the same simulations the haas will) are different from machine to machine and even control revision.

You have a bank of knowledge from the experienced employee as he will eventually/slowly teach you.

Best advice I can offer is try to find programming books. If you can’t find that, use the basic g/m codes the haas used, not any haas specific codes or tricks. If you don’t know if the machine will take the code, ask around the shop, somebody should know. If they don’t, your breaking virgin ground there. Sometimes you win, some times you loose, and sometimes it’s a wash.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

13engines · Nov 30, 2018

Get Peter Smids book called something like CNC Programming. It's very good and Fanuc based. You'll get a lot out of it whether you know anything going into it or not. Another idea is Fanuc programming manuals for each particular control. There will be a page or pages describing everything the control can possibly do. Even with options your machines may or may not have. People with programming and CNC backgrounds should have no problems making sense of what you read in them. Study-practice-study-practice...

rx8pilot · Nov 30, 2018

Thank you for the responses, much appreciated!

At the moment, I am more concerned with operational information rather than programming. I cannot see that the programming is much different, but the interface is totally new. I was looking all over for an equivilent 'ATC FORWARD' button to pickup the next tool. I soon learned that you have to MDI command a tool change with T6 M6; and cycle start.

Setting tool offsets, loading programs, homing the machine after power up is all new.

I am literally starting from scratch interfacing with the controls. Learning that 'PUNCH' has somehow survived many decades from the punch card days and still means 'send data'. Crazy.

litlerob1 · Nov 30, 2018

So ask a question. You just want a pontification of everything everyone knows? Sorry. You-tube has good videos. Peter Schmidt, Heinz R. Putz, among several others. Peter, Sihna and Heinz are members here. S.K. Sihna's book on Macro. But if you spent 1 hour on the 'tube' you would know all that.

What specifically are you asking, that you don't already know? Fanuc is NOT Haas. The fundamentals of every CNC control are basically the same, it's jusst figuring out how to interface with them, that changes. Every control needs to know where the part is, every control needs to know how long the Tool is, every control needs instructions, every control needs to interpret what you are telling it. Homing a Fanuc is the same thing as Auto All Axes or Power up/Restart on a Haas--it's the same thing.

(OSP doesn't need that, because it's not retarded) but it still needs to know where the part face is, in relation to the end of a Tool.

R

NAST555 · Dec 1, 2018

Ok so I will get on the band wagon... I AM NOT A FANUC HATER.

Seriously guys, I fully appreciate how backwards the experience behind any Fanuc feels to many, but I can ask a question about a 5,6,10,18,O,Oi, bla bla bla on here or even from my next door neighbors unborn child and get an answer.

The Fanuc controls Work, and work and work, then something breaks on a 30 year old board, in backwards South Africa, and you can get spares for it. Say the same about a 30 year old Mazak and I will eat my left ear hair that has anyway been bothering me.

If it is an O control it is base line and damn near rock solid. Want to upload a program and have to go the Rs232route.... So the fuck what? Get the job done! Want to bitch about a CF card on a Oi, and having to press 3 more buttons than any other control to get it in there, shame, after other have bitched I have already finished the part.

In my opinion Fanuc dumbed the controls for people like me so that I could get shit done, and gave others with a bit more of a brain cell the option to get shit done more efficiently.

As Rob said, ask what you need about the control, I assume a OT or OiT, and I guarantee here you will get an useful answer.

There is a reason why the Haas control is not sold independent to MTB's... and that Fanuc is all over the planet on solid iron of not their making.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

Perhaps I have done a poor job of presenting a question seeing how the answers are off topic.

I am not talking about bandwagon discussions of whether or not Fanuc controls are good or bad. I have five machines with Fanuc controls that I need to learn to be successful at my new job - opinions of the control relative to Haas, Okuma, DMG are irrelevant. I need to learn these controls wheter I love 'em or hate 'em.

Topic clarification:
I am looking for learning resources, not specific answers to specific questions. I am not even sure what to ask in some cases.
I am NOT looking for G-code programming resources - I already have that information and I am already designing and programming new CAM posts for each machine.
I AM looking for operational information that explains the layout of the keys, the sub-menus, how to back up parameters, what do all the softkeys mean like 'OPRT, etc, etc, etc

Information on navigating the control. As an example, when loading a program you have to type in the number starting with 'O' and press the down arrow. When I was first looking at this I was trying to just select the program from the list and press ENTER. One of the guys came over to tell me, 'Oh, you just type it in and press the down arrow'. There is no dedicated ATC control - if I need Tool 3 in the spindle I have to goto MDI, key in T3M6; and press cycle-start. Coming from Haas, I had no idea I would have to do that. I was looking for a button or sub-menu of some sort to change tools.
Homing the machine (at least some of the ones we have) is not a 'POWER UP / RESTART' single button affair. I have to put it in REF RTN mode, select the axis, and press the '+' button until that axis gets into its homing routine. I have to repeat that for each axis. Then (I have been told) that I have to zero out the RELative coordinate system for each axis. Some machines need this, others don't. Relying on 'shop knowledge' entirely is not my idea of learning the system properly.

I want to have a much more structured and official way of learning those items that are not obvious. Haas has plenty of non-obvious keyboard commands that you simply have to be taught by someone or read in a manual or watch in a video.

I hope this helps clarify the original post and generates more targeted responses.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

Here is a good example of what I am after....this video establishes the operation flow of Fanuc controls. Found it on YouTube....

706jim · Dec 1, 2018

One thing you may have already encountered: On A Haas mill you can get T3 from the carousel by simply coding M6T3, completely logical and pretty well foolproof.
On some Fanuc controlled mills, you would have to call the tool BEFORE the tool change as the T command rotates the carousel to the tool change position.So the T command is always one step ahead of the M6 command.
So M6T3 would change out whatever happens to be in the spindle and T3 would be the next in line to load. Not all that logical compared to what Haas does.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

706jim said:
One thing you may have already encountered: On A Haas mill you can get T3 from the carousel by simply coding M6T3, completely logical and pretty well foolproof.
On some Fanuc controlled mills, you would have to call the tool BEFORE the tool change as the T command rotates the carousel to the tool change position.So the T command is always one step ahead of the M6 command.
So M6T3 would change out whatever happens to be in the spindle and T3 would be the next in line to load. Not all that logical compared to what Haas does.

Excellent tip. That would have me scratching my head for sure.

angelw · Dec 1, 2018

rx8pilot said:
Perhaps I have done a poor job of presenting a question seeing how the answers are off topic.

I am not talking about bandwagon discussions of whether or not Fanuc controls are good or bad. I have five machines with Fanuc controls that I need to learn to be successful at my new job - opinions of the control relative to Haas, Okuma, DMG are irrelevant. I need to learn these controls wheter I love 'em or hate 'em.

Topic clarification:
I am looking for learning resources, not specific answers to specific questions. I am not even sure what to ask in some cases.
I am NOT looking for G-code programming resources - I already have that information and I am already designing and programming new CAM posts for each machine.
I AM looking for operational information that explains the layout of the keys, the sub-menus, how to back up parameters, what do all the softkeys mean like 'OPRT, etc, etc, etc

Information on navigating the control. As an example, when loading a program you have to type in the number starting with 'O' and press the down arrow. When I was first looking at this I was trying to just select the program from the list and press ENTER. One of the guys came over to tell me, 'Oh, you just type it in and press the down arrow'. There is no dedicated ATC control - if I need Tool 3 in the spindle I have to goto MDI, key in T3M6; and press cycle-start. Coming from Haas, I had no idea I would have to do that. I was looking for a button or sub-menu of some sort to change tools.
Homing the machine (at least some of the ones we have) is not a 'POWER UP / RESTART' single button affair. I have to put it in REF RTN mode, select the axis, and press the '+' button until that axis gets into its homing routine. I have to repeat that for each axis. Then (I have been told) that I have to zero out the RELative coordinate system for each axis. Some machines need this, others don't. Relying on 'shop knowledge' entirely is not my idea of learning the system properly.

I want to have a much more structured and official way of learning those items that are not obvious. Haas has plenty of non-obvious keyboard commands that you simply have to be taught by someone or read in a manual or watch in a video.

I hope this helps clarify the original post and generates more targeted responses.

Hello rx8pilot,
Your comments relating to Tool Change (other than a command within a program) and how that is accomplished, is determined by the Machine Tool Builder and Not Fanuc. Some machines a Tool Change can't even be executed via MDI, but only through a program run in memory, or via DNC. Accordingly, the resource you need to learn the operation of the Hardware of the specific machine is the Machine Tool Builder's Operator's Manual.

There is a lot of Fanuc bashing that goes on, but generally the issue is with the MTB, Not Fanuc. Therefore, the better question to ask would be "Learning Fanuc equipped Doosan/Daewoo Mill/Lathe controls - what are my options"

With regards to navigating the various pages of the Control Operation, all is explained in the Fanuc Manuals that come with the machine. If the original manuals have gone to God, most manuals, other than for quite early model controls, can be found on and downloaded from the Internet.

Regards,

Bill

Vancbiker · Dec 1, 2018

angelw said:
....There is a lot of Fanuc bashing that goes on, but generally the issue is with the MTB, Not Fanuc.

Absolutely true.

The thing that few folks recognize or understand, is that Fanuc is providing a "universal" CNC to hundreds of machine builders. Fanuc does not determine how the auxiliary functions of the machine will work, or even if they exist. That is all up to the machine builder. Fanuc only provides a PLC and programming tools for the machine builder to write software that will operate the functions and features the builder implements on their machine.

A recent thread here had someone complaining about how slow the probing routines on their Fanuc equipped machine were. Laughable. Other than providing a Skip Signal input for the probe trigger and providing a macro programming language, Fanuc has nothing to do with anything related to the probing on that machine.

Fanuc provides parameters that affect how the control will behave. Things like how tool offsets are performed have choices that are determined by the machine builder.

There is no one-size-fits-all list of instructions that will enable you to fully and safely operate any machine tool equipped with a Fanuc control. This is also true for other CNCs where the control is of different manufacture than the machine.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

Thanks Bill - I am thankful you pointed that out. It is hard to tell where the MTB and Fanuc are separated in the eyes of a new user. I believe the printed manuals are available somewhere in the shop.

I have already found that each of the five machines in my new shop all has something unique to them, but the main Fanuc control is reasonably consistent.

Concerning tool length offsets:
The INP. C. will input the current position from the RELATIVE coordinate system (I think)
Is that consistent with most Fanuc mills or more specific to Doosan/Daewoo?
I would have expected INP.C. to input the MACHINE position which would eliminate the need to zero the RELATIVE position to the MACHINE zero.

Is there a parameter that controls how this works?

The first thing I would like to do is backup all machines, including parameters. Do you suppose that is best accomplished by looking in the each of the massive manuals, or is that consistent across all Fanuc controls.

litlerob1 · Dec 1, 2018

rx8pilot said:
The first thing I would like to do is backup all machines, including parameters. Do you suppose that is best accomplished by looking in the each of the massive manuals, or is that consistent across all Fanuc controls.

This is what I mean I am not trying to run you off....but this is what Google says.

Fanuc O;;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...store_F0.htm&usg=AOvVaw00V1ZqizAIdejg-3eWBayw

Fanuc 16-18;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...re_F1618.htm&usg=AOvVaw0eDGZ4ZE8quCmT2VLPMzcX

Fanuc 10-11;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...re_F1011.htm&usg=AOvVaw0IFlPDij78WoR0h5Yaliz8

Fanuc 9000;fanuc 9 parameters description - Google Search

Fanuc 16i 18i 21i;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...M_Backup.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0fLa016dRVFgnGppYMh4ue

Fanuc Oi;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...meter-backup&usg=AOvVaw3pAVuy890PR8ql8p7Tz_p2

The questions you are asking are too generic.

I would start a Thread for each topic as you see fit, and use a topic title like "Backing up parameters on Fanuc Oi mate". NOT "what are my options?"

R

guest · Dec 1, 2018

rx8pilot said:
...Concerning tool length offsets:
The INP. C. will input the current position from the RELATIVE coordinate system (I think)
Is that consistent with most Fanuc mills or more specific to Doosan/Daewoo?
I would have expected INP.C. to input the MACHINE position which would eliminate the need to zero the RELATIVE position to the MACHINE zero.

Inp C. is common to Oi series and probably some others. Where you origin relative Z depends on how you are setting your Z in G54.

If G54 Z zero is machine zero, relative Z needs to be origined at machine zero if you are going to use the measure function. If G54 Z is set to the part Z zero, you should origin relative Z at that position so your measure function gives you the correct tool length.

When you set your tools you need to be aware of where the relative Z is origined- the program is in absolute- the tool length from machine zero is the sum of the G54 Z value and the value in the H register.

G54 Z zero may or may not be the same as machine zero. That's why tool lengths are measured from the relative screen.

If you do like most people and leave G54 Z all zeros, the tool length will be the same as the machine Z position at the part zero.

If the machine has absolute encoders, it does not need homing on startup, and relative will match to absolute when the control initializes.

The difference between Haas and Fanuc are barely worth mentioning. When you are adjusting offsets, <input> on fanuc is the same as <F1> on the Haas. <+input> is the same as <write>.

Setting work offsets on fanuc, <measure> is the same as <part zero set> on the Haas, but on the fanuc you have to specify the absolute position you are measuring- example: X0 <measure>

Work offsets on fanuc are the same, but on fanuc (EXT) is the same as G52 on Haas. It's a global shift on all work coordinates.

The <OPRT> softkey just toggles sub-menus.

I'm not going to go into backing up your parameters and macros, there are threads on the board that cover those topics and the manuals give step-by-step instructions for your control.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

Thank you for the links. I have been Googling for the past few days and found quite a bit of information.
The problem is that very little of what I google is complete and I have no idea how to qualify the accuracy of information. Google is only good if you know exactly what to ask. For a person looking at a brand new topic, how should I know what to ask? Why is asking a group for recommendations on where to start a bad thing?

The reason I started this thread was specifically to get some ideas of what trusted educational resources to get an understanding of the Fanuc ecosystem. High-level understanding that will help when I start digging into the deeper topics and details specific to individual MTB's. Bill offered some important information that I did not know to ask - The MTB's make a lot of the personality of the machine that has nothing to do with Fanuc. If he did not offer that information, it would not have occured to me to ask.

I come from electrical and mechanical engineering before getting into manufacturing. We tend to take a structured approach to break down complex systems. If someone said, "I want to learn electrical engineering - what are my options?" My response would not be "Google it, there is lot's of information on the internet".

I have mentored many younger engineers about how to tackle a new topic or engineering discipline. The only way I know how is to find resources that are complete and trusted. Resources that explain concepts from the outside in....meaning start with an overview and slowly present the concepts in a logical and complete way. Over time, building a complete understanding of the topic - not just memorization of button sequences.

rx8pilot · Dec 1, 2018

guest said:
Inp C. is common to Oi series and probably some others. Where you origin relative Z depends on how you are setting your Z in G54.

If G54 Z zero is machine zero, relative Z needs to be origined at machine zero if you are going to use the measure function. If G54 Z is set to the part Z zero, you should origin relative Z at that position so your measure function gives you the correct tool length.

When you set your tools you need to be aware of where the relative Z is origined- the program is in absolute- the tool length from machine zero is the sum of the G54 Z value and the value in the H register.

Absolute Z zero may or may not be the same as machine zero. That's why tool lengths are measured from the "relative" screen. Match your relative Z to absolute Z and your tool lengths will be right.

If you do like most people and leave G54 Z all zeros, the tool length will be the same as the machine Z position at the part zero.

If the machine has absolute encoders, it does not need homing on startup, and relative will match to absolute when the control initializes.

The difference between Haas and Fanuc are barely worth mentioning. When you are adjusting offsets, <input> on fanuc is the same as <F1> on the Haas. <+input> is the same as <write>.

Setting work offsets on fanuc, <measure> is the same as <part zero set> on the Haas, but on the fanuc you have to specify the absolute position you are measuring- example: X0 <measure>

Work offsets on fanuc are the same, but on fanuc (EXT) is the same as G52 on Haas. It's a global shift on all work coordinates.

The <OPRT> softkey just toggles sub-menus.

I'm not going to go into backing up you parameters and macros, there are threads on the board that cover those topics and the manuals give step-by-step instructions for your control.

That is great information and makes sense now. Thanks for taking a moment to write it out. On Monday, I will have some time to setup some test parts on the mills and lathes. After pushing the buttons for a bit, it should all make sense. At this point, I feel confident enough to get through a setup safely although probably rather slow.

I have found a few videos, and threads, that will help me work out the backup procedures for each machine. I was not expecting this thread to tackle that topic in any detail.

On some of the Daewoo machines, there are seperate power buttons for NC and the MACHINE. Any idea why these are setup that way? Is that just another MTB decision or something that is defined by Fanuc? Obviously not a big deal, just curious why it is setup like that.

guest · Dec 1, 2018

rx8pilot said:
...On some of the Daewoo machines, there are seperate power buttons for NC and the MACHINE. Any idea why these are setup that way? Is that just another MTB decision or something that is defined by Fanuc? Obviously not a big deal, just curious why it is setup like that.

Look at your control. You see the part that has the display and funky keypad? That is the fanuc side.

Everything else is the MTB side.

Ox · Dec 1, 2018

Have not read the whole thread yet, but you say that you are looking to learn the tricks.
Well, as far as Fanuc is concerned - and you - coming off a Haas, this is one of the top tricks to learn - mostly for a mill, but ...

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/local-subroutines-fanuc-248851/

----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

rx8pilot · Dec 7, 2018

Ok - So, another week goes by and I have learned a lot more about Fanuc controls.

A local CNC service company came in to give me some one-on-one instruction. I have also been able to load and set up a couple of jobs. Overall - Fanuc is terrible from a human interface perspective. Totally abismal by any slightly modern expectation. This, however, is not a Fanuc bashing thread so I will stay on topic.

So far, the best resouce I have found that offers a general overview of Fanuc mill/turning controls is a youtube channel: Overview of the Machine Operator Panel - YouTube
This is a series of videos that provides a good introduction to the control system and gives the student an understanding of the architechture, explanation of the keypad layouts, etc. Great information.

The in-person instruction was important to point out the specific implimentation of the MTB (Doosan in my case). A good example is that some of the machines have card access on the front panel to do full backups. Two of the machines have no cards on the panel, but they do have them in the control enclosure on the back of the machine.

He was also able to run me through the common parameters, how to change them and how to avoid screwing up your machine. While all of this is in the various documentation - it is very slow to slog through 1000's of pages when you are really in need of an 'overview' first. One of the most valuable lessons was when the training guy pointed out the highlights of the documentation making it easier for me to make use of the reference manuals in the future.

So, for new users of Fanuc controls....
Spending the money having some in-person training is worth it. If that is not possible, the YouTube linked series is a great place to get a lay of the land. There are very few resources that are actually helpful overall.

It is very valuable to truly learn the control, not just memorizing a key sequence with no understanding of what the underlying concepts are. This is the problem with my current machinist. He has little understanding of the control, but has memorized the button that need to be pushed. He cannot explain how anything works, does not understand any parameters, data back-up, etc.

Learning Fanuc Mill/Lathe controls - what are my options?

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