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Looking for a roughing lathe, need your advice

A

ArtemLoco

Plastic
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Hello! I ask for your advice in choosing a lathe. English is not my native language, so sorry for any inaccuracies.
The task is to roughly cut a workpiece weighing 33 kg, diameter 280 mm. It is necessary to remove about 9 kg chips from each part. Material - steel after hot stamping, stamping is not very good quality.
The number of parts is 800 per month.
I have roughing and finishing machines, but it is time to upgrade my roughing machines to something fresher and the old ones will remain in reserve.

So what I'm looking for:
One machine with two spindles and two turrets or two machines separately.
Machine production year 2000-2004
CNC system - Fanuc, Siemens, Heidenhain
Machine manufacturer - Europe, Korea, Japan or Taiwan
Budget - 20.000-30.000 $
I need stability of work, availability of spare parts.
From what I found, I liked Monforts. On the Internet they say that they are tough, they had a DNC5 model - two spindles of 21 kW each, the weight of the machine is about 13 tons, but this is a small company and there are few spare parts on the market.
What advice could you give from your experience?
Thanks for your attention
pstnimage.jpg
 
I totally agree, the vertical type has the greatest rigidity. I studied the market and the cost a while ago .... I found a suitable Daewoo, Hyundai and Okuma. But two vertical lathes cost 55-80 thousand dollars, in which case the budget is enough for only one. Machine tools are more expensive in Europe than in the USA. Thanks for your advice
 
sounds like your going to be into a Gildermeister,Emco,Index are going to be the market your looking for. If you find a machine make sure it's the 840d and digital drives, the 840c wasn't bad but most likely will have the 611a analog drives, stay away from the 611a.
 
I've found 1997 year Hyindai vertical lathe with Fanuc for 20.000$... Old and one spindle
Yes, its hard to load manually 70 Lb part, we will use little crane
I'd liek to buy Okuma 2-sp 55/60 but they cost 60.000+ Euro here
 
Last edited:
digger doug said:
Used, that market was "Motch & Merryweather" around here.
Used to make them 2 on one base, 1st op, flip over and 2nd op.
MOTCH 135 Vertical Boring Mills (incld VTL) #1773 - MachineTools.com

Why a separate machine for roughing ?
Click to expand...
thank you I will look for this machine
We divide operations into roughing and finishing for several reasons:
1. We are poor, we save on equipment. We do dirty work on old machines, clean on new ones.
2. The quality of the hot stamping workpiece in our country is lower than in the USA - due to irregularities, bursts, the machine receives shock loads. But we get it cheap. About 25-35 cents per 1 kg + metal cost
3. Also, by this method, we actually duplicate, in the event of equipment breakdown - we can use additional shifts to keep up with the production schedule.
 
pcasanova said:
sounds like your going to be into a Gildermeister,Emco,Index are going to be the market your looking for. If you find a machine make sure it's the 840d and digital drives, the 840c wasn't bad but most likely will have the 611a analog drives, stay away from the 611a.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. I've heard Gildemeisters are strong machines (old). There is very interesting model MD7, heavy and strong. But they have old CNC - Grudnig, this company does not exists any more. We have bought this year two Gildemesiter CTX 400, 15-20 years old but worked 3000-4000 hours :) just for finish operations nice.
So, your opinion Emco is good for hard turning?
Thank you very much for recomendations.
 
ArtemLoco said:
Thank you very much. I've heard Gildemeisters are strong machines (old). There is very interesting model MD7, heavy and strong. But they have old CNC - Grudnig, this company does not exists any more. We have bought this year two Gildemesiter CTX 400, 15-20 years old but worked 3000-4000 hours :) just for finish operations nice.
So, your opinion Emco is good for hard turning?
Thank you very much for recomendations.
Click to expand...

never did hard turning, so couldn't give you a answer on that.
the other thing to look out for is the turret. I would only
look at the machines with the sauter turrets.
 
pcasanova said:
never did hard turning, so couldn't give you a answer on that.
the other thing to look out for is the turret. I would only
look at the machines with the sauter turrets.
Click to expand...
Yes I look Sauter, also look at tools holder 25x25 mm (VDI 40) minimum. I see there is lot of Emco vertical lathers with good price but they are pick-up type and I
worried about the unevenness of the workpiece, the spindle may grip the workpiece unevenly. I don't know, there was no experience ...
 
digger doug said:
And the blind thread holes underneath ?
How are you putting those in ?
Before or after Heat treat ?
Click to expand...

We are only making the piston head, we have not started production of the connecting rod, negotiations on this matter have not yet been conducted.
As far as I remember, after stamping and roughing, we do a heat treat, then we mill the seats for the valves, drill a hole for the cooling oil to drain, and then do the finishing work, perhaps after all we do another heat treat (hardening).
 
ArtemLoco said:
We are only making the piston head, we have not started production of the connecting rod, negotiations on this matter have not yet been conducted.
As far as I remember, after stamping and roughing, we do a heat treat, then we mill the seats for the valves, drill a hole for the cooling oil to drain, and then do the finishing work, perhaps after all we do another heat treat (hardening).
Click to expand...

Typically, there are 4-6 tapped holes on the underside to retain it to the piston.

Whats the connecting rod look like ?
 
digger doug said:
Typically, there are 4-6 tapped holes on the underside to retain it to the piston.

Whats the connecting rod look like ?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I did not pay attention to the holes for attaching the piston head to the main body. I do not have drawings of the connecting rod, we can process it, but first we need to finish with the piston. We are already doing all the operations and the part has passed the quality control department, now it is necessary to enter the rhythm, make a reserve of machines. Therefore, I turned to the experts on this forum. As the forum member wrote above, the topic is interesting. I don't understand why the topic of roughing has been discussed little on the forum. Roughing requires both rigidity and powerful spindle bearings, which are not always available on high-precision machines.
We have a lot of work and potential orders here, but we do not have enough inexpensive equipment like in the USA.
We come from another country where we have been doing business for more than 20 years, here in 6 years we have reached 70 tons of finished products per month. A short history about us if interested :)
I am attaching some drawings, I can not show more under the terms of the contract.
We thought about drilling a hole on a milling machine with a divide head, but we tried another scheme to work on a simple drilling machine, everything works.
pistondrill.jpgIMG-20200707-WA0007.jpg
 
Going out on a limb here, mostly roughing is done on the same machine, to not have to
load/unload parts as many times.

The fixture you posted, it looks like it is for drilling the oil spray cooling holes.
 
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