Looking for spindle for 1985 Kitamura MyCenter 1
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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for spindle for 1985 Kitamura MyCenter 1

    Hi everyone, I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post.

    I work at a startup company in the Portland, OR area that is developing a new type of glucose monitor.

    We have a 1985 Kitamura MyCenter 1 and the main spindle bearing seems to have been cooked due to inadequate lubrication.

    We've talked with some shops in the area about having the spindle repaired, but we wanted to check here just in case anybody has a MyCenter 1 that they're parting out and has a known working spindle to sell, before we go ahead with a repair or a used replacement. Can't hurt, right?

    Sol

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    The Kitamura Mycenter 1 uses permanently greased bearings with no other lubrication. If the bearings are the only problem it is not a difficult spindle to rebuild. The motor drives the spindle via belts so all you have to do is back off the tension by moving the motor ahead and then drop the spindle cartridge. The bearings are expensive but the job isn't too bad. Make sure to order the proper grease when you get the bearings and follow the lubrication procedure exactly. It takes an exact amount between the balls with a special syringe that is included with the grease.

    The oil that is fed to the spindle via the cooler isn't for lubrication, it is simply for cooling the spindle. The oilcon units use a very thin mineral oil that circulates around the cartridge to keep the temp stable. You will want to extract as much of the oil as you can prior to dropping the cartridge just to keep the amount of oil draining out to a minimum.

    Also take a close look at all the lubrication metering units for the way lubrication system when you are working on the spindle. As long as they are all working and there are no chips jammed in way wipers these machines are quite reliable. For getting large programs directly fed into the control from CAM check out Dan Fritz's "PC-DNC" software. With the software comes the layout for a cable that can feed the code right to the old tape reader port. For these older controls this transforms the machine's capabilities.

    Best of luck!

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by sreid View Post
    Hi everyone, I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post.

    I work at a startup company in the Portland, OR area that is developing a new type of glucose monitor.

    We have a 1985 Kitamura MyCenter 1 and the main spindle bearing seems to have been cooked due to inadequate lubrication.

    We've talked with some shops in the area about having the spindle repaired, but we wanted to check here just in case anybody has a MyCenter 1 that they're parting out and has a known working spindle to sell, before we go ahead with a repair or a used replacement. Can't hurt, right?

    Sol
    There's a few places in LA that part out machines, they list on ebay.

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    Thanks for the responses. Dave, do you know what this copper hose is for if not for lubrication?:kitamura_mystery_line.jpg

    It was threaded into the back of spindle flange. The folks at Kitamura US headquarters were nice enough to send some parts drawings to us that clearly show the oil cooling jackets, but this little hose doesn't show up anywhere. The person I spoke with couldn't say how the bearings were lubricated. The copper hose was pinched during transport and apparently nobody bothered to wonder if it might cause a problem. If the bearings are permanently greased then it's just a coincidence, but it does make me curious.

    It's hard working without manuals...

    I have removed the spindle cartridge and the spindle will not turn freely by hand, but does move a few degrees. I wanted to take a look at the bearings but we don't even have a propane torch here to get the rotation sensor and belt pulley off (it seems like they need heat), so we'd have to send this out to be repaired.

    There is a replacement spindle on eBay but it's a tough call whether to replace with a used spindle or spend a bit more to have a repair done (a reputable spindle repair shop in our area offered us a good rate).

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    I looked at the Ebay spindles, and I'd suggest getting yours rebuilt over buying those options. Just my opinion...

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    I need a few more shots of that line to get a clearer idea which one it is please.

    The line I'm thinking of has to be routed exactly right to avoid getting pinched from Z travel, it used to lubricate the Z axis ballscrew/nut.

    I completely dismantled one of these machine down to the last nut and bolt so if it is the same as mine was I'm pretty sure I can help.

    Years ago I took mine apart to bring it through a 2' x 3' basement window and reassembled it in a basement bedroom. Ran it that way for a few years before I tore it down and moved it out again.

    Unless your spindle has a damaged taper do not buy another online hoping it will solve your problems, it will likely need bearings as well.

    If memory serves I only needed heat to install the bearings properly and that was not with torches but a toaster oven with a oil filled tray. Little bit of a fire hazard but the quantity was small and precautions were taken to ensure safety. Everything else was presses and proper tools. Make sure the special locking nuts are properly unloaded before you try to loosen them. You really shouldn't need heat to get that spindle apart.

    Don't put heat on that magnet used for the spindle orientation. The heat can demagnetize the magnet.

    Regards,

    Dave

    image_104.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    Years ago I took mine apart to bring it through a 2' x 3' basement window and reassembled it in a basement bedroom. Ran it that way for a few years before I tore it down and moved it out again.

    image_104.jpg
    That's epic.

    That definitely looks like our spindle. I hadn't considered that the line could be leaving the spindle flange and not entering it. Here are a few more pictures. The oil from where the copper line was connected seems to be a different color than the cooling oil? The copper line connects to a braided line and goes up into the big hose guide.

    Is there a special way to unload the spieth nuts besides loosening the small socket head cap screws? I got the top nut off but it took a long handle to do it! Good point about not heating the magnet.

    Thanks Dave, you are a champ. Thanks to everybody else for the perspective on eBay spindles as well.
    img_3707.jpgimg_3708.jpgimg_3709.jpgimg_3710.jpgimg_3711.jpg

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    Your spindle is a different spec than mine was, at least as far as lubrication goes. I did not have that hole connected to anything, it was plugged on my spindle. What RPM is that spindle? Does that line go an air lubricator? If that is the case you have a high speed lubricated spindle setup which is nice when the supply lines aren't pinched off. In this case you just need to replace the damaged line and test the lube system for functionality then replace the bearings... after that provided the lubrication system is working and you have dry, clean and lubricated air it should work great for a very long time.

    In my shop I built a cooler which cools the air coming out of my compressor before it enters a water seperator/ filter and then the tank, this keeps the air always cool in the tank so if you run a dessicant dryer after the tank like we do it will also function properly to remove what moisture is left in the air.

    There is a second possibility, that line may be just to introduce low pressure air into the labyrinth seal area so coolant cannot make it in. It will be pretty easy to tell once you look closely at where that threaded hole leads in the spindle housing.

    Keep us posted on how it goes.

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    The spindle was supposedly rated to 10k RPM. I presume the line from the spindle flange connects to this air lubricator.img_3713.jpg There was another smaller air lubricator on the floor nearby as well(?). Our air situation is a horror show: old craftsman compressor with the drain thumbscrew sheared off so it's full of water. We'll definitely have to improve our air supply system before getting running again.


    I will work a little today on getting the spindle apart further.img_3714.jpgimg_3715.jpgimg_3716.jpg
    Last edited by sreid; 08-03-2018 at 12:29 PM. Reason: remove duplicate images

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    I got the spindle apart further. Now it seems like the pinched hose was just an air line. It went straight into the interior of the cartridge above the main bearings. There is a film of darker oil than the cooling oil inside there but it doesn't look the oil from the air lubricator.

    Dave, how did you get the correct preload on the bearings when reinstalling them?
    I am wondering now if we can tackle this ourselves, assuming we find the right bearings.img_3718.jpgimg_3717.jpgimg_3719.jpgimg_3720.jpgimg_3721.jpg

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    I've been here several times. I was given a 1981 Kitamura for rigging charges because of spindle bearing failures. The triple bearing sets for my machine were on a limited production schedule, so availability was iffy. After shielding the lower bearing from coolant and debris intrusion, problem fixed. Last price paid for the triple set was approx. $1200. I have since bought several "unmatched" sets of bearings for future use. Cleanliness and grease quantity are most important, but at this point, I would use my unmatched bearings in a heartbeat. I can easily indicate inner and outer race levels with other machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sreid View Post
    Dave, how did you get the correct preload on the bearings when reinstalling them?
    I am wondering now if we can tackle this ourselves, assuming we find the right bearings.
    You can absolutely do this yourself. Get the proper matched set from NSK and preloading has already been taken care of. Match up the marks on the races when installing, don't hit anything, use heat gently to help the process. I would only use a heat gun, induction element or heated oil via oven to heat the bearing as to not introduce carbon deposits inside the bearings.

    That air line can do much worse harm than good if the air you are supplying isn't conditioned enough as was said earlier. That large lubricator shown with the blue can on it lends me to believe these bearings are getting lubricated by an oil mist, not grease. The pinched line explains the failure. You can plug the line and run grease if you like, or fix everything and run air mist. The advantage of air mist is the self cleaning aspect and the coolant will have a harder time making it's way into your bearings. The disadvantage is that if that system isn't properly functioning you lose your bearings. Grease is great just make sure you always have your spindle spinning before you engage your coolant. I never had problems with mine.
    Last edited by Nerv; 08-07-2018 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Removed duplicate posting of images


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