Looking for turn/groove tooling recommendations

atex57 · Mar 10, 2019

I'm looking for a 1/8" or 3mm turn/groove tool holder and inserts. Depth at least .6" or 16mm deep.

This will be used on 1045 and 8620 steel mostly with a little 1018 and tool steels.

The primary application will be cutting grooves about .55" deep per side and about 2" wide with a radius in the corners.

Latheinserts.com has a holder and inserts that look like they would work, any recommendations? Feeds and speeds? Depth of cut?

Right now I am using an older Manchester dogbone style. The part I don't like is the insert is only grooved on the bottom and with a flat top so I worry about the insert tipping when it would get dull.

TIA Ed.

G_W77 · Mar 18, 2019

I've been a big fan of Iscar for OD grooving for a few years. I recommend them. I've always like the quality of their tools.

Guest · Mar 18, 2019

Second the Iscar, they aren't cheap, buy always worth the money.

toolsteel · Mar 18, 2019

I use Sandvik corocut. I can use it for plunging or for profiling.
Spend some money....grooving is one of those ops that can either make you $ or cost you $. Spend it up front and do it right

litlerob1 · Mar 19, 2019

This question seems to come up about 2x a week. I wonder why.

R

atex57 · Mar 19, 2019

litlerob1 said:
This question seems to come up about 2x a week. I wonder why.

R

Well, since it was posted a week and a half ago and just now got replies I don't think that is excessive, wonder away.

I have a Corocut holder and inserts but it is a little short on depth. The Manchester goes deep enough but is not as stable on turning.

Looks like I will give Iscar a good look.

Thanks for the help guys.

Ed.

Pete Deal · Mar 19, 2019

I bought some pretty nice PH horn tooling through shopsupplyguru (poster here). I have not used it yet but what impressed me is that grooving seems to be a specialty of PH Horn and they have lots of options. I got the setup with the replaceable cassette so hopefully it will be a little cheaper when things go bad.

G_W77 · Mar 19, 2019

Pete Deal said:
I bought some pretty nice PH horn tooling through shopsupplyguru (poster here). I have not used it yet but what impressed me is that grooving seems to be a specialty of PH Horn and they have lots of options. I got the setup with the replaceable cassette so hopefully it will be a little cheaper when things go bad.

I have been to the Iscar North American Headquarters for a seminar. If you are looking at face grooving, even the guys at Iscar tell you PH Horn is almost impossible to beat.

AARONT · Mar 19, 2019

Another for Iscar. Also, look at the coolant thru groovers. You can run them a little quicker and harder.

Bluejeep · Mar 19, 2019

I have one from latheinserts.com, and like it. I use it mainly on my little rathebone chucker its a good tool for the price, insert hold up to abuse and are resonably priced. On my cnc lathe I like my seco MDT. Its stout and has many insert choices. Seco also provides good starting feeds/feeds. there is a coolant thru model available under the jetstream line. Fwiw the seco inserts are grooved top and bottom.

Comatose · Mar 19, 2019

Iscar GRIP3002Y is permanently mounted in tool 2 on both my turning centers, right behind the CNMG.

The only downside to the type is they can be a little chatter prone when profiling, but I use them for everything. Parting, backside shoulders, grooving, steep profiles, vee grooves, etc.

litlerob1 · Mar 19, 2019

I was only wondering why. Are people not doing their own research on the geometry? Are they unwilling to take a chance on something new? Are they not reading the Thread from last week?

R

I use Iscar for ALL my Grooving applications.

Jashley73 · Mar 19, 2019

litlerob1 said:
I was only wondering why. Are people not doing their own research on the geometry? Are they unwilling to take a chance on something new? Are they not reading the Thread from last week?

Man, I gotta say, grooving is one of the more challenging tools to spec out. One of the worst things I had to help customers with when I was in sales, was spec'ing out face-grooving tools for lathes. (Pull-studs for mills BTW...)

Some of the catalogs do a so-so job at best of "helping" you pick the right tool for the job. Holder's might be OK to find, but then matching up the correct insert to it - that's not an easy task for someone not well versed in it. And then the manufacturer makes you buy (10) inserts, and a re-stocking feed when you screw up and need to return them because you picked the wrong tool from the catalog...

In short, call your tool guy and ask them if they have experience with turn/groove tools. If not, hang up and call the next one...

Shop Supply Guru · Mar 19, 2019

Thanks for the shout out Pete.

I sell a number of big name insertable tool brands. For groove and groove turning the Horn S224 or S229 is a beast. The holders come in a variety of reaches as opposed to one or two from most major manufacturers so you can get the stubbiest reach needed for aggressive groove turning.

The S229 & S224 inserts are available in almost 20 different chipbreaker options.

XD341 · Mar 19, 2019

G_W77 said:
I have been to the Iscar North American Headquarters for a seminar. If you are looking at face grooving, even the guys at Iscar tell you PH Horn is almost impossible to beat.

Mitsubishi for face grooving work pretty well. The grade of inserts they offer has a speed limit in stainless, which is most of my face grooving but once you figure that out they work well. I face groove a lot.

litlerob1 · Mar 19, 2019

Jashley73 said:
Man, I gotta say, grooving is one of the more challenging tools to spec out. One of the worst things I had to help customers with when I was in sales, was spec'ing out face-grooving tools for lathes. (Pull-studs for mills BTW...)

Some of the catalogs do a so-so job at best of "helping" you pick the right tool for the job. Holder's might be OK to find, but then matching up the correct insert to it - that's not an easy task for someone not well versed in it. And then the manufacturer makes you buy (10) inserts, and a re-stocking feed when you screw up and need to return them because you picked the wrong tool from the catalog...

In short, call your tool guy and ask them if they have experience with turn/groove tools. If not, hang up and call the next one...

Might just be pissy, because I did all that research myself.

Guest · Mar 19, 2019

litlerob1 said:
I was only wondering why. Are people not doing their own research on the geometry? Are they unwilling to take a chance on something new? Are they not reading the Thread from last week?

R

I use Iscar for ALL my Grooving applications.

Since I just ended a long suffering 7 years of using satellite internet I try to give people benefit of the doubt when they appear to be asking questions that make it appear like they are too lazy to use Google or even the search function on this site. My service, with high signal latency, speeds sometimes as slow as dial up, and up to a dozen drop outs a day could make simple searches very burdensome. I once spent all day trying to download a Guhring drill catalog. I finally gave up and called Guhring for a recommendation and who sold that item. Some websites never had full function due to the signal latency and other issues.

lx545 · Mar 19, 2019

We use walter groove/turns regularly for shaft roughing. I prefer a full rad insert for chatter and doc reasons.

Kapster · Mar 19, 2019

We use the Seco mdt, works very well. The grooves top and bottom make it very rigid. I've had better luck with Seco for grooving and parting then Sandvik, but use a lot of Sandvik for turning.

I've used a Horn face groover in a size I really couldn't find elswhere, they have a huge selection. Worked good and was surprisingly well priced.

CarbideBob · Mar 19, 2019

So,
We have Seco, Sandvik, Iscar, Mitsubishi, Walter, PH-Horn, and Latheinserts.com as the go-to tools.
A few still missing from the list but yes I'm keeping count

Bob

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