Machine recommendation for stainless 304 with HSM toolpaths

I am looking for a recommendation for a used VMC.

We primarily machine stainless type 304, and also a good amount of aluminum. The stainless is obviously the more challenging one and this is what I am focused on with this machine purchase.

All of our toolpaths are HSM / trochoidal type, so we're never taking heavy cuts, although we frequently take deep cuts. Our endmills rarely go larger than 3/8" diameter.

Currently we have 5 VMCs, all of which are older Kitamuras. From what I understand, Kitamuras are a top choice for dealing with stainless because they are built very heavy with box ways, but can still move fast. Since I have only ever had Kitamuras, I don't know how much better they really are than alternatives.

Also, since I'm only running modern HSM toolpaths, I don't know how important the box ways really are, compared to the linear rails found on most other machines.

I'd need a machine with at least 25" of X travel, a spindle of 10,000rpm (preferably 15k), and fast rapids since there is so much non-cutting rapid moves involved in the HSM toolpaths.

Any recommendations?

How deep is "deep" to you?

3/4/5 axis?

Sounds like the bigger Speedios or Robodrills could be a good fit. Not sure if they're actually released yet but Brother has a new W1000 model that looks nice.

Machining stainless like this?

Brother Speedio CNC 15-5 Steel Test Cut - YouTube

Brother machines do stainless great. 3/8" end mill is my go-to for roughing tougher materials.

BROTHERFRANK said:

Machining stainless like this?

Brother Speedio CNC 15-5 Steel Test Cut - YouTube

Brother machines do stainless great. 3/8" is my go-to for roughing tougher materials.

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I need one of these machines.

BugRobotics said:

I need one of these machines.

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Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. We have installed many Brother machines in Colorado.

footpetaljones said:

How deep is "deep" to you?

3/4/5 axis?

Sounds like the bigger Speedios or Robodrills could be a good fit. Not sure if they're actually released yet but Brother has a new W1000 model that looks nice.

Click to expand...

Very right that "deep" is most definitely a relative term. Deep to me is perhaps 2xD, so 3/4" deep with a 3/8" tool. So not that deep I suppose.

3 axis is all we do right now, but certainly we do have parts that could benefit from a 4th axis.

I had looked at robodrills a few months back when I was looking for a pallet changer machine. The technicians I spoke with seemed to suggest that while the machine certainly could handle stainless, that it really might not be the right machine to be eating stainless for its primary diet. They may be fast and reliable and really nice and compact, but perhaps not the most rigid machines. Just comparing the weight of the a long-bed robodrill (4600 lbs) compared to a Mycenter 3 with a similar table travel (16,000 lbs) shows a 3x difference in mass. I've got to think that has to matter.

I'm seeing a lot of votes for Speedios here. I had always thought of these as small (but fast) machines, but now I realize that they make some with X travels sufficiently long for my needs. I will take a look at these now!

footpetaljones said:

How deep is "deep" to you?

3/4/5 axis?

Sounds like the bigger Speedios or Robodrills could be a good fit. Not sure if they're actually released yet but Brother has a new W1000 model that looks nice.

Click to expand...

What the heck is the W1000? Got a link or an article?

Edit: W1000Xd1 | Machine Tools | Brother

He said "used". V33 Makino is 24" in X, and you can find them with pallet changers, too. They aren't even real expensive, considering.

We had two OKK verticals, don't know the X but seemed that big, box ways (since you mentioned that) and zipped around fast too. Did a heck of a job. The ethernet connection was pretty nice. (I know, trivial, but still nice.)

with 5 kitamuras you might want to stick with Fanuc controls ,, There has been a LOT of used Doosan mills on the market lately and they seem to be selling cheap. big upside is the programs could be swapped with your Kitamuras

mutiny said:

What the heck is the W1000? Got a link or an article?

Edit: W1000Xd1 | Machine Tools | Brother

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Brother Speedio W1000Xd1 is essentially the same as current S1000X1. Since it is built very differently (castings are unique) than the S300-S700 machines, they are changing the nomenclature to W for it (W for wide I presume). US probably won't see those for 6-12 months is my guess. S1000X1 machines are in stock now.

I do that on a Haas. Haters will hate, but it gets the job done pretty well.

Our shop runs stainless every day, 304, 316, 317, Duplex 2205, Super Duplex 2507, Hastelloy C276, Alloy 20, AL6XN.

I've been in this industry for 5 years now and never one had a chance to machine Aluminum. Even when I come in on weekends to make stuff for my self, I make it out of stainless because we have so much on hand.

I'm gonna be honest, I come here for advice and the advice has been very good. But I think you guys are way out to lunch on stainless. Tool reps with decades of experience come to our shop and have never come across duplex stainless (ISO ​M3.1.Z.AQ). Which is why we have no loyalty with tool brands because very few of them have enough offerings to cover everything we need.

As the one guy said, you can machine stainless on Haas. And I can assure you that newer VF2 will handle stainless better than a 30 taper Robodrill. We had a Robodrill, I ran it on stainless for a long time. We just did light cuts.

I don't know the nature of the parts you are making, I know HSM/trochoidal is all the rage. But if you have heavy boxway kitamuars and a decent spindle. Why not buy a 5/8" end mill and run it hard.

In my other post you'll see I'm also shopping for a VMC that will be cutting stainless. My only concern is torque for drilling (1"+ insert drill). Right now I'm leaning towards the Hardinge V1000 with linear rails.

If you only have Kitamuras, and they've been good to you, then I don't see a reason to change it up?

And don't forget that just because a machine is a box way, doesn't mean it's a good build. A boxway on it's own is rigid, but the rest of the machine could be cheap as shit.

There are numerous really high end really high performance machines that use linear rails, i.e. Grob, Okuma etc.

There are some Okuma M560 on ebay. Pretty decent price, 15kBBT . Quite a capable machine in stainless compared to the Brother. I have a 16k BigPlus 700s1 The M560 next to it eats Stainless Unless you are doing little stainless and ti parts...

BROTHERFRANK said:

Brother Speedio W1000Xd1 is essentially the same as current S1000X1. Since it is built very differently (castings are unique) than the S300-S700 machines, they are changing the nomenclature to W for it (W for wide I presume). US probably won't see those for 6-12 months is my guess. S1000X1 machines are in stock now.

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My keyboard is NOT drool-resistant.

Stop it, Frank!

all machines will run stainless, the size and build determine how hard you want to run it. even the toy machines like a tormach will cut it all but just do it slower.