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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70olds View Post
    We have several 560 machines at the shop where I work and also several S1000's. The 560 is by far the more stout capable machine, but if you are doing small aluminum stuff you can't beat the speed of the Speedio. Both machines are good in their own right, we really never have issues with either. From our experience you can feed faster more accurately with the Okuma. The machine seems to hold contour shapes better. And we went through and had Yamazen help us out with all of the control options to help with that which did make a huge difference, but the Okuma still beats it without playing with the program. I feel I get more machine for my money with the Okuma, and it can do everything the Brother can but not move so quickly. There are things the Brother can't do that the Okuma can however being so much heavier a machine with the 40 taper. I like the Okuma control far better. The Brother control I would say feels outdated by comparison, not nearly as easy to navigate.

    I vote for the 560 if you need to be able to do everything and do it well.

    EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, we have a bunch of guys who were used to HAAS controls and I would say 9/10 eventually grow to prefer the Okuma control from the setup/programming side. Operator is probably more evenly split if the started on a HAAS. I prefer it as well but I started on an Okuma so my opinion is heavily experience biased. I prefer the OSP over FANUC, Brother, Mitsubishi, Siemens, in that order.
    I love the OSP control... it seems Okuma actually put a lot of thought and take feedback from machinists seriously, whereas Fanuc seems to let the software developers who write the CNC control software also handle the UI.

    As for profiling on the Speedio, you mentioned having Yamazen come in to help. Was this some time ago? Do your machines use the new firmware that supports "easy" modes for high-speed machining? The only downside (or upside depending on your POV) is that the Brother gives you a lot more control. But that also means you need to either understand the control very well or play around with it. For small run parts, it's often not worth the time to spend hours tweaking, whereas for higher volume stuff, it can pay off huge. I really wish the Brother control had a super-simple setting, like "max deviation from programmed toolpath", and you could just let the machine run as fast as it can, while not deviating from your programmed toolpath more than 0.002 or whatever you tell it. Bonus points if they added some sort of slider that would let you tweak from max accuracy to max speed while showing you the average IPM or average time hit to your toolpath. Also would be nice if you could adjust deviation by line, arc, helix, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I really wish the Brother control had a super-simple setting, like "max deviation from programmed toolpath", and you could just let the machine run as fast as it can, while not deviating from your programmed toolpath more than 0.002 or whatever you tell it. Bonus points if they added some sort of slider that would let you tweak from max accuracy to max speed while showing you the average IPM or average time hit to your toolpath. Also would be nice if you could adjust deviation by line, arc, helix, etc.
    I think that's the smartest thing you've ever posted. It's really a brilliant idea. Haas tries to do something similar, but processing power just isn't there.

    The main problem is that neither Machine has the balls to deal with an odd unexpected corner or whatever. They'd just crap out. Whereas Okuma wouldn't even skip a beat.

    R

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    With everyone saying that the optioned out Haas is the same price as the Genos I had to see if all the Haas's I've been putting in shops in Asia could have actually have been an Okuma. I sent an email to the rep in Tennessee and got a quote for the Genos M560V. Wow!!!! When one of the other posters said they are proud of their options that was an understatement! I built a comparison on a spreadsheet and quickly saw there is no was they could possibly be close in price. The base Okuma was almost double that of a VF3ss. Then the options where just way out of line for any machine.

    $22,000 for Same exact renishaw TS27 and OMP probes that Haas has for $5,600?

    Then the 4th axis is a whopper. The cheapest one they offer$15 (Tsudakoma, Identical to Haas HRT-210) started at $16K just for the table. $6,600 just for the interface then another $3,700 for a cable??? Then some of the Okuma Rotaries went up into the $60K range just for the rotary.

    The control,,, Ok I like the OSP control and have sine my firs LB-15 way back. But $280 for virus protection has me shaking my head. Why build a control that can get a virus and then knowing it could get a virus and then why charge the customer to protect it?

    A few other options just absolutely puzzled me. 5 grand for block skip function then another grand for program restart? Oh, do they really charge $4,500 for an LED status beacon?

    Okuma had some really nice options (3 pages of them) but also missing some. I didn't like the fact they only offer 1 spindle where Haas had 5 or 6 to choose from. But Then Haas doesn't offer the BIG PLUS spindle anywhere. I cant find anything on Okuma having a programmable coolant nozzle. Is this something that is standard on Okuma? I didn't see it in the options list. Then the 1K coolant through is an extra 16K verses Haas was 8K.

    I like Okuma and admit they are one of the best built machines on the market but just have to take a step back and run the numbers. Sure the Okuma will probably last twice as long as the Haas but that could be a bad thing. The way machine tool technology is improving at such a rapid pace who's to say some new super tech doesn't pop up and out perform anything on the market. A good example of this is the DMG Lasertech that is a 5X mill with 5 axis laser metal deposition. As I watch how fast 3D printing is evolving I have to wonder how long before several MT builders have this as an option.

    As much as I like the Okuma I will stick with Haas. 235K verses 100K for the same options would justify 2 Haas with enough money left over to tool both up both.

    I know the Haas haters will chime in but don't beat up on me too bad. Everyone in this group will have there preference and in the end we choose what is going to suit each of us best.

    I took a screen shot of the spreadsheet just to show the numbers but everyone else can come to their own conclusions. These numbers are direct from Okuma and Haas build a quote.

    okuma-vs-haas.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    With everyone saying that the optioned out Haas is the same price as the Genos I had to see if all the Haas's I've been putting in shops in Asia could have actually have been an Okuma. I sent an email to the rep in Tennessee and got a quote for the Genos M560V. Wow!!!! When one of the other posters said they are proud of their options that was an understatement! I built a comparison on a spreadsheet and quickly saw there is no was they could possibly be close in price. The base Okuma was almost double that of a VF3ss. Then the options where just way out of line for any machine.

    $22,000 for Same exact renishaw TS27 and OMP probes that Haas has for $5,600?

    Then the 4th axis is a whopper. The cheapest one they offer$15 (Tsudakoma, Identical to Haas HRT-210) started at $16K just for the table. $6,600 just for the interface then another $3,700 for a cable??? Then some of the Okuma Rotaries went up into the $60K range just for the rotary.

    The control,,, Ok I like the OSP control and have sine my firs LB-15 way back. But $280 for virus protection has me shaking my head. Why build a control that can get a virus and then knowing it could get a virus and then why charge the customer to protect it?

    A few other options just absolutely puzzled me. 5 grand for block skip function then another grand for program restart? Oh, do they really charge $4,500 for an LED status beacon?

    Okuma had some really nice options (3 pages of them) but also missing some. I didn't like the fact they only offer 1 spindle where Haas had 5 or 6 to choose from. But Then Haas doesn't offer the BIG PLUS spindle anywhere. I cant find anything on Okuma having a programmable coolant nozzle. Is this something that is standard on Okuma? I didn't see it in the options list. Then the 1K coolant through is an extra 16K verses Haas was 8K.

    I like Okuma and admit they are one of the best built machines on the market but just have to take a step back and run the numbers. Sure the Okuma will probably last twice as long as the Haas but that could be a bad thing. The way machine tool technology is improving at such a rapid pace who's to say some new super tech doesn't pop up and out perform anything on the market. A good example of this is the DMG Lasertech that is a 5X mill with 5 axis laser metal deposition. As I watch how fast 3D printing is evolving I have to wonder how long before several MT builders have this as an option.

    As much as I like the Okuma I will stick with Haas. 235K verses 100K for the same options would justify 2 Haas with enough money left over to tool both up both.

    I know the Haas haters will chime in but don't beat up on me too bad. Everyone in this group will have there preference and in the end we choose what is going to suit each of us best.

    I took a screen shot of the spreadsheet just to show the numbers but everyone else can come to their own conclusions. These numbers are direct from Okuma and Haas build a quote.

    okuma-vs-haas.jpg
    I never checked any figures, but I was surprised to hear Okuma and Haas were in the same ballpark (according to some here) on price too. This could also be relative to where you are buying them too (just a heads up, not trying to discredit your numbers). Just did not sound right to me....

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    With everyone saying that the optioned out Haas is the same price as the Genos I had to see if all the Haas's I've been putting in shops in Asia could have actually have been an Okuma. I sent an email to the rep in Tennessee and got a quote for the Genos M560V. Wow!!!! When one of the other posters said they are proud of their options that was an understatement! I built a comparison on a spreadsheet and quickly saw there is no was they could possibly be close in price. The base Okuma was almost double that of a VF3ss. Then the options where just way out of line for any machine.

    $22,000 for Same exact renishaw TS27 and OMP probes that Haas has for $5,600?

    Then the 4th axis is a whopper. The cheapest one they offer$15 (Tsudakoma, Identical to Haas HRT-210) started at $16K just for the table. $6,600 just for the interface then another $3,700 for a cable??? Then some of the Okuma Rotaries went up into the $60K range just for the rotary.

    The control,,, Ok I like the OSP control and have sine my firs LB-15 way back. But $280 for virus protection has me shaking my head. Why build a control that can get a virus and then knowing it could get a virus and then why charge the customer to protect it?

    A few other options just absolutely puzzled me. 5 grand for block skip function then another grand for program restart? Oh, do they really charge $4,500 for an LED status beacon?

    Okuma had some really nice options (3 pages of them) but also missing some. I didn't like the fact they only offer 1 spindle where Haas had 5 or 6 to choose from. But Then Haas doesn't offer the BIG PLUS spindle anywhere. I cant find anything on Okuma having a programmable coolant nozzle. Is this something that is standard on Okuma? I didn't see it in the options list. Then the 1K coolant through is an extra 16K verses Haas was 8K.

    I like Okuma and admit they are one of the best built machines on the market but just have to take a step back and run the numbers. Sure the Okuma will probably last twice as long as the Haas but that could be a bad thing. The way machine tool technology is improving at such a rapid pace who's to say some new super tech doesn't pop up and out perform anything on the market. A good example of this is the DMG Lasertech that is a 5X mill with 5 axis laser metal deposition. As I watch how fast 3D printing is evolving I have to wonder how long before several MT builders have this as an option.

    As much as I like the Okuma I will stick with Haas. 235K verses 100K for the same options would justify 2 Haas with enough money left over to tool both up both.

    I know the Haas haters will chime in but don't beat up on me too bad. Everyone in this group will have there preference and in the end we choose what is going to suit each of us best.

    I took a screen shot of the spreadsheet just to show the numbers but everyone else can come to their own conclusions. These numbers are direct from Okuma and Haas build a quote.

    okuma-vs-haas.jpg
    G-Coder,
    What country did you get this quoted in? In the US most of what you have on that list other than the probe and 4th axis stuff comes standard on our machines. Our local reseller was just selling M560 machines for 120K with about everything on your list minus high pressure, probe, and 4th axis (yes it DID include the conveyor, status light, etc.) They also offer packages for the probing stuff, I believe around 15K for the full suite. Optioned out the same (you have to add a 15K spindle to the HAAS, chip conveyor, remote MPG, hi speed machining, etc.) the price comes in within 10-15 percent of being the same here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70olds View Post
    G-Coder,
    What country did you get this quoted in? In the US most of what you have on that list other than the probe and 4th axis stuff comes standard on our machines. Our local reseller was just selling M560 machines for 120K with about everything on your list minus high pressure, probe, and 4th axis (yes it DID include the conveyor, status light, etc.) They also offer packages for the probing stuff, I believe around 15K for the full suite. Optioned out the same (you have to add a 15K spindle to the HAAS, chip conveyor, remote MPG, hi speed machining, etc.) the price comes in within 10-15 percent of being the same here.

    This quote is in Tennessee USA delivered to my building in Cleveland TN.

    Here are just a few snippets from the quote. Their is so many options it would take 10 screen shots to show all.

    quote-pic-1.jpgquote-2.jpgquote-3.jpg

    You're right about the spindle, MPG, and HSM options. I forgot to put those on there. My mistake, I prefer the higher torque of the 12K 40HP than the 15K 30HP. As for MPG I just don't see the need for one on machines under a 50" travel. but if we are to add those in:

    15K 40HP spindle upgrade is $6,495
    HSM is $2,895
    Jog Handle is $1,495
    so yeah, it adds about 11k to the total. The Chip conveyor is already in my spread sheet.
    This puts the machine still 20K cheaper than the base model Okuma they quoted me. Then take into account almost all Haas build a quote gets 10% knocked off the top when you get the written quote from Phillips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    This quote is in Tennessee USA delivered to my building in Cleveland TN.

    Here are just a few snippets from the quote. Their is so many options it would take 10 screen shots to show all.

    quote-pic-1.jpgquote-2.jpgquote-3.jpg

    You're right about the spindle, MPG, and HSM options. I forgot to put those on there. My mistake, I prefer the higher torque of the 12K 40HP than the 15K 30HP. As for MPG I just don't see the need for one on machines under a 50" travel. but if we are to add those in:

    15K 40HP spindle upgrade is $6,495
    HSM is $2,895
    Jog Handle is $1,495
    so yeah, it adds about 11k to the total. The Chip conveyor is already in my spread sheet.
    This puts the machine still 20K cheaper than the base model Okuma they quoted me. Then take into account almost all Haas build a quote gets 10% knocked off the top when you get the written quote from Phillips.
    That is definitely much higher than we pay. I only asked about the country because you mentioned Asia in your earlier comment and your name lists Phillipines next to it and I know some machines are incredibly expensive in certain areas for whatever reason. Shot you a PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I love the OSP control... it seems Okuma actually put a lot of thought and take feedback from machinists seriously, whereas Fanuc seems to let the software developers who write the CNC control software also handle the UI.

    As for profiling on the Speedio, you mentioned having Yamazen come in to help. Was this some time ago? Do your machines use the new firmware that supports "easy" modes for high-speed machining? The only downside (or upside depending on your POV) is that the Brother gives you a lot more control. But that also means you need to either understand the control very well or play around with it. For small run parts, it's often not worth the time to spend hours tweaking, whereas for higher volume stuff, it can pay off huge. I really wish the Brother control had a super-simple setting, like "max deviation from programmed toolpath", and you could just let the machine run as fast as it can, while not deviating from your programmed toolpath more than 0.002 or whatever you tell it. Bonus points if they added some sort of slider that would let you tweak from max accuracy to max speed while showing you the average IPM or average time hit to your toolpath. Also would be nice if you could adjust deviation by line, arc, helix, etc.
    Mike, we had gone through this probably about 8 months ago if I had to guess. You really nailed my point with the part about it taking so much tweaking. We spent a good amount of time and it paid off huge compared to where we started, but it took A LOT of messing with it. Even with the settings correct we don't find it follows the contours quite as well with the same speed. It is close though.

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    I'm in the M560 camp. Very capable machine that will make consistent parts day in and out for years. We have 2 that have performed flawlessly for years.

    You mention the koma vs Haas rotary being the same. I am going to go out on a limb and say they are not the same unit.

    Your initial price is too high, I saw a promotion not long ago that has base listed at $115K I think.

    If you're looking at adding a 5th keep in mind Z height. Not sure how the Haas stacks up against the okuma in that arena.

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    Your initial price is too high, I saw a promotion not long ago that has base listed at $115K I think.
    I;m sure the initial price is higher than what someone can get one for. I was just having a discussion with another member here who has one and he pointed out that their goal as well as other MTB's is to make you feel like you are getting a 500K machine for 200K. To me this makes me feel like I'm dealing with a car salesman. Too bad they wont do like Haas and have a no BS build a quote website where you don't have to deal with a salesman until your ready to buy.

    You mention the koma vs Haas rotary being the same. I am going to go out on a limb and say they are not the same unit.
    No they are not the same unit. The Tsudakaoma was the closest match I could find to the HRT-210 with Size, Torque, and Accuracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I;m sure the initial price is higher than what someone can get one for. I was just having a discussion with another member here who has one and he pointed out that their goal as well as other MTB's is to make you feel like you are getting a 500K machine for 200K. To me this makes me feel like I'm dealing with a car salesman. Too bad they wont do like Haas and have a no BS build a quote website where you don't have to deal with a salesman until your ready to buy.



    No they are not the same unit. The Tsudakaoma was the closest match I could find to the HRT-210 with Size, Torque, and Accuracy.
    I wish more companies (not just mtb) would follow their lead on this. This is also why I like MSC, ya they (msc) are more expensive, but I know up front what the price is (and I know I can expect to take 20-30% off their list) without having to contact ANYONE for a quote... Sure it might not make sense on big ticket items, but when I need a sub 30$ tool, it is way more convenient to just go online and order it (or rather write the number down and give it to the office and they order it ) and because we do 95% small stuff our regular endmill orders are mostly in the 10-20$ range.

    https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...968+4288239921

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    That's not a "quote" its just the long list of all available features/options etc with the high MSRP price that pretty much all builders list.
    An actual quote is when you finish nailing down what you want, what actually comes with it standard, shipping etc, and the dealer finishes the package deal, maybe even has something close in stock for an extra discount... you should know that with all the machines you bought for employers?
    Sure as hell ain't $235k when that's done.
    That said, sometimes some dealers/reps will give a f*ck off price too, mostly if they know you're not in their territory, if they even talk to you at all.

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    A lot of truth in the above.

    One of the last big machine purchases before I retired had a $1.3 million list price. Actual purchase price landed at $860k.

    When I worked for a distributor variable pricing was used as needed to get a sale or discourage a sale. Customers that were known or suspected to be a risk or had a high PITA factor did not get the same deals as a long time return customer that we had a good working relationship with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    That's not a "quote" its just the long list of all available features/options etc with the high MSRP price that pretty much all builders list.
    An actual quote is when you finish nailing down what you want, what actually comes with it standard, shipping etc, and the dealer finishes the package deal, maybe even has something close in stock for an extra discount... you should know that with all the machines you bought for employers?
    Sure as hell ain't $235k when that's done.
    That said, sometimes some dealers/reps will give a f*ck off price too, mostly if they know you're not in their territory, if they even talk to you at all.

    Yeah, I realize its just a list and is negotiable but with all the brands I have ever dealt with this one was the most shocking. Not just the pricing but even just the type of options they listed. I mean, an option for a warm up function? not sure what that is but it cost 5 grand!

    I know the Okuma wouldn't even be close to 235K but they would have to knock 50% off just to get in the range everyone is claiming they sell for. That's a hell of a discount and I just cant figure out why they would send out "An Options list" with such high prices.

    I would like to know what Okuma's discount is though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Attachment 260333

    The S1000 is really nice and is close to your price range including the tilting rotary. 10k High Torque or 16k spindle available. To do a 30" part you will need the S1000 (40 x 20)
    LOVE my S1000

    Quote Originally Posted by CGornet View Post
    Not going to lie, a bit surprised at all the Haas recommendations.
    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Really? I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many shops that don't have a Haas in there somewhere.
    I haven't worked in any shops with a Haas, only know one shop that has one, guy started in his garage and at the time it was the only machine that would fit.

    Ah! No, I remembered a shop, Haas was the cheapest disposable mill they could get for a job that usually destroys the machine every few years.

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    I like the part where G-coder says the Tsudakoma is identical to an HRT-210. We need a ROFLMAO emoji.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I like the part where G-coder says the Tsudakoma is identical to an HRT-210. We need a ROFLMAO emoji.

    R
    Alright,,, "Identical" may have been a poor choice of words. What I should have said was "the closest thing on Okuma's list to compare".

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    I think its funny how just about "EVERY" post about new machines quickly turns into using Haas as the baseline on price ,

    I got a 15% off deal from Haas yesterday and went and ran the numbers this morning on a new VF2SS with Auger, HS machining and probing and it came to $64K..... That is outfitted close to the vf2ss I got the end of last year and it has long sense payed for its self. It has had one problem with a Auger motor and I called the HFO on monday morning and the vary next morning a new motor was at my door and 2 hours later the HFO had it fixed ..

    As a shop owner that pays cash for everything it really makes me stop and think about what my machine buying choices are. I have looked at Okuma 560 and have owned a Doosan DNM5700 and for the parts I build hands down the Haas vf2ss is the best choice for what I need out of the machine ,,, If I was milling stainless all day I would get a new Okuma 560 over a vf2ss with out even thinking about it , But it all comes down the ROI. The vf2ss well make just as good of parts and just as fast as the 560 for what I build and do it for half the investment cost.
    If Okuma was the same price as Haas I would buy Okuma ,, but there not even close to the same price.

    Bottom line is simple
    As a long time shop owner 25+ years with 37+ years in the trade I run my business to make "ME" money ,, yes I can dump a huge amount of money into fancy machines but at the end of the day its all about "ME" taking money out of the business for my self and not just dumping money into the business. Over the last 25 years most other shop in my county have gone under or get sold off do to them not keeping there eye on the bottom line. Buying more machine than you need is easy to do and all your doing is dumping money into something that is not going to be good about giving you money back .. The first shop I worked for had older machines but they were in good shape ,, I asked the owner one day why it was we made good money but were still running old machines ,, he just told me "There payed for" and walked away.

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  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I think its funny how just about "EVERY" post about new machines quickly turns into using Haas as the baseline on price ,

    I got a 15% off deal from Haas yesterday and went and ran the numbers this morning on a new VF2SS with Auger, HS machining and probing and it came to $64K..... That is outfitted close to the vf2ss I got the end of last year and it has long sense payed for its self. It has had one problem with a Auger motor and I called the HFO on monday morning and the vary next morning a new motor was at my door and 2 hours later the HFO had it fixed ..

    As a shop owner that pays cash for everything it really makes me stop and think about what my machine buying choices are. I have looked at Okuma 560 and have owned a Doosan DNM5700 and for the parts I build hands down the Haas vf2ss is the best choice for what I need out of the machine ,,, If I was milling stainless all day I would get a new Okuma 560 over a vf2ss with out even thinking about it , But it all comes down the ROI. The vf2ss well make just as good of parts and just as fast as the 560 for what I build and do it for half the investment cost.
    If Okuma was the same price as Haas I would buy Okuma ,, but there not even close to the same price.

    Bottom line is simple
    As a long time shop owner 25+ years with 37+ years in the trade I run my business to make "ME" money ,, yes I can dump a huge amount of money into fancy machines but at the end of the day its all about "ME" taking money out of the business for my self and not just dumping money into the business. Over the last 25 years most other shop in my county have gone under or get sold off do to them not keeping there eye on the bottom line. Buying more machine than you need is easy to do and all your doing is dumping money into something that is not going to be good about giving you money back .. The first shop I worked for had older machines but they were in good shape ,, I asked the owner one day why it was we made good money but were still running old machines ,, he just told me "There payed for" and walked away.
    Believe me, I am still weighing options here, but the VF2SS and the 560/DNM5700 aren't in the same class in terms of size. You'd have to compare the VF3SS as a fair comparison which adds $12k to the base. Adding just the base features from the Doosan to the VF3SS brings the price within 10k with their 15% promo. Do I need all of it? Probably not, but they are all nice to haves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    With everyone saying that the optioned out Haas is the same price as the Genos I had to see if all the Haas's I've been putting in shops in Asia could have actually have been an Okuma. I sent an email to the rep in Tennessee and got a quote for the Genos M560V. Wow!!!! When one of the other posters said they are proud of their options that was an understatement! I built a comparison on a spreadsheet and quickly saw there is no was they could possibly be close in price. The base Okuma was almost double that of a VF3ss. Then the options where just way out of line for any machine.

    $22,000 for Same exact renishaw TS27 and OMP probes that Haas has for $5,600?

    Then the 4th axis is a whopper. The cheapest one they offer$15 (Tsudakoma, Identical to Haas HRT-210) started at $16K just for the table. $6,600 just for the interface then another $3,700 for a cable??? Then some of the Okuma Rotaries went up into the $60K range just for the rotary.

    The control,,, Ok I like the OSP control and have sine my firs LB-15 way back. But $280 for virus protection has me shaking my head. Why build a control that can get a virus and then knowing it could get a virus and then why charge the customer to protect it?

    A few other options just absolutely puzzled me. 5 grand for block skip function then another grand for program restart? Oh, do they really charge $4,500 for an LED status beacon?

    Okuma had some really nice options (3 pages of them) but also missing some. I didn't like the fact they only offer 1 spindle where Haas had 5 or 6 to choose from. But Then Haas doesn't offer the BIG PLUS spindle anywhere. I cant find anything on Okuma having a programmable coolant nozzle. Is this something that is standard on Okuma? I didn't see it in the options list. Then the 1K coolant through is an extra 16K verses Haas was 8K.

    I like Okuma and admit they are one of the best built machines on the market but just have to take a step back and run the numbers. Sure the Okuma will probably last twice as long as the Haas but that could be a bad thing. The way machine tool technology is improving at such a rapid pace who's to say some new super tech doesn't pop up and out perform anything on the market. A good example of this is the DMG Lasertech that is a 5X mill with 5 axis laser metal deposition. As I watch how fast 3D printing is evolving I have to wonder how long before several MT builders have this as an option.

    As much as I like the Okuma I will stick with Haas. 235K verses 100K for the same options would justify 2 Haas with enough money left over to tool both up both.

    I know the Haas haters will chime in but don't beat up on me too bad. Everyone in this group will have there preference and in the end we choose what is going to suit each of us best.

    I took a screen shot of the spreadsheet just to show the numbers but everyone else can come to their own conclusions. These numbers are direct from Okuma and Haas build a quote.

    okuma-vs-haas.jpg
    Okuma deals on the 560 all the time. Yes options are expensive but you can get a 560 with the 4th and full probes tooling package and installed for $150K...I know cause I've done it. No one has ever paid $235K USD for a 560.

    Talk to an actual sales rep. or don't...and buy a Haas. Horse to water and all that.


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