Machine shop just had worst crash I have ever seen, Need help diagnosing
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  1. #1
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    Default Machine shop just had worst crash I have ever seen, Need help diagnosing

    This just popped up and I cant believe the damage. I know you guys don't normally look at Facebook but this shop just had a counterbalance accident and the damage was devastating. Something came apart and hit the kurt vice, shattering the jaws, throwing the vice into the back of the machine, went through the Haas enclosure, then through a metal wall, then through a metal chair, then into another brick wall and finished of in another metal wall. the velocity of this thing would have had to be enormous.

    its worth the time to watch the video

    Haas CNC Programmers Public Group | Facebook

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    We already have a thread on this crash, although it isn't titled very well: Safety First

    One of the reasons Don asks for well thought out thread titles, so we minimize duplication and make it easier to find relevant topics when searching.

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    Diagnosis?

    Sure!

    Same diagnosis as all the people who claim "The gun just went off!" when they have a negligent discharge... Somebody meant to type M3 S1200 and typed M3 S12000 instead.

    More importantly, running that tool in that machine was a fucking dumb idea. A disaster waiting to happen. Given the ratty looks of the rest of that outfit, I am sure someone thought they were smarter than the average bear when they decided to use that big bastard in a commodity CAT40 machine. It is the kinda thing 50 guys will get away with, but holy shit... the 51st guy is lucky to live.

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    I was pretty impressed with the exit wound, the next exit wound, and all that followed. That was some hellacious energy there...

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    Saw the aftermath of a Fadal that threw a 1" travel indicator. Guy was setting up to check the tram so had the indicator on an arm about 6" long. Attempting to release the spindle orientation, he accidentally turned on the spindle. The last commanded speed was 10K. No idea how high it got before things came apart. Side door was out of the machine and the indicator went out that way. Flew across an aisle and another row of machines and hit the concrete building wallabout 30 feet away. Left a pretty good impression right down to being able to see the knurling pattern of the dial ring in the concrete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Diagnosis?

    Sure!

    Same diagnosis as all the people who claim "The gun just went off!" when they have a negligent discharge... Somebody meant to type M3 S1200 and typed M3 S12000 instead.

    More importantly, running that tool in that machine was a fucking dumb idea. A disaster waiting to happen. Given the ratty looks of the rest of that outfit, I am sure someone thought they were smarter than the average bear when they decided to use that big bastard in a commodity CAT40 machine. It is the kinda thing 50 guys will get away with, but holy shit... the 51st guy is lucky to live.
    I'll make it easier and more to the point.

    Diagnosis?

    Sure!
    owners a fucking idiot and should have NEVER let that tool in the shop.
    blows my mind on the other thread everyone else was more interested in the trajectory than calling out the shop for stupidity

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    One of the other groups was saying how the owner was saying how the machine has had a few issues, doing things unexpectedly.
    Hmmm...

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    This was the thread from a few days earlier.

    Safety First

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    every VMC I have ever used has a max spindle speed setting for each tool. dose haas not bother with this, or I guess it wasn't set correctly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    One of the other groups was saying how the owner was saying how the machine has had a few issues, doing things unexpectedly.
    Hmmm...
    Bullshit.

    You have to be pretty stupid to run a giant fly cutter like that in the first place. The handful of circumstances where it would be absolutely necessary are rare as chicken teeth, and clearly above the pay grade of this outfit judging from the looks of things.

    But you would need to be epically stupid to throw such a contraption into a machine that you knew had ghosts that randomly sent the spindle to V max.

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    When looking at something like that on the bench before anything..I like to say out loud "whats the worst that can happen"
    Now we almost know. Instead of doing a vid I would be doing a prayer circle and letting everyone go home.
    I would sit down and wonder what set of events lead to such stupidity.
    Gary

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    Oh, Sorry about the repost. China is really cracking down on VPNs and I cant stay logged in enough to catch up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    Oh, Sorry about the repost.....
    Nothing to be sorry about. The other thread was in the General Forum, not here.

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    Nothing to diagnose. Someone with a fat finger put way too many rpms for that kind of tool and Centrifugal force tool over. Lucky no one was killed.

    I am surpised this doesn't happen more often. I am seeing more and more people that never stood in front of a drill press or a bridgeport programming via cad/cam a HAAS with 20 or 30 horsepower. 2000 rpms or 15000 rpms is just a number. Means nothing to them. Stand on front of a bridgeport all day with a hand sharpened 3" fly cutter at 2000 rpms milling aluminum blocks and you learn really quick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Nothing to diagnose. Someone with a fat finger put way too many rpms for that kind of tool and Centrifugal force tool over. Lucky no one was killed.

    I am surpised this doesn't happen more often. I am seeing more and more people that never stood in front of a drill press or a bridgeport programming via cad/cam a HAAS with 20 or 30 horsepower. 2000 rpms or 15000 rpms is just a number. Means nothing to them. Stand on front of a bridgeport all day with a hand sharpened 3" fly cutter at 2000 rpms milling aluminum blocks and you learn really quick.
    Watched a guy take off most of his fingers using a 6” fly cutter on a Bridgeport. Went to lock the quill and his hand slipped off the lever.

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    Definitely agree, that tool should never have been in that machine, spinning an aluminum anything that diameter with a literal steel weight bolted to the end at those velocities is just asking to take someones head off. Was the tool even marked as a + size? Is there not a max RPM for + tooling? I don't know that I'd be comfortable using that in a CAT50 machine unless it was hard limited to 5k RPM or less. I have literally seen a tool thrown across the shop by a failing tool changer arm, and that's no where near the inertia this thing had to have. On the other hand, I am surprised the HAAS, with it's MASSIVE 30HP DRIVE MOTOR!!!, could even reach 12k with a tool that size. Ours struggled to spin up the 5" face mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G00 Proto View Post
    Watched a guy take off most of his fingers using a 6” fly cutter on a Bridgeport. Went to lock the quill and his hand slipped off the lever.
    That "slip off the lever" is something I've always had in the back of my mind when working on a BP or clone.

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    I'll preface my harsh words by stating that I'm pleased that nobody was killed or injured in this event.

    That said, someone (the owner AND all the machine operators) need to go back to school and take a 9th grade physics class, and also go take a basic machining and safety course. The circumstances that caused that are absolutely idiotic.

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    I realize the Curmudgeon effect is strong around here, I am one, but geeze, let up a little.
    1: This guy did not have to post this. He intended it a warning and a lesson for others.
    2: It's an engine shop so it may not have polished floors like some expect.
    3: It's a Centroid cutter head. A common design supplied by MFGs of these VMCs for engine shops.
    4: It's a Centroid machine. I know this because the cutter is only sold with the machine.
    5: Stuff happens.

    #4 edit. He has more than one machine so the Centroid head could be used on a machine other than Centroid.

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    We had a similar incident [semi] locally about 10 yrs ago involving an HMC and a warm-up routine with a similar off-balance tool.
    Spindle went big and fly cutter self destructed.
    Operator WAS killed.

    My Siemens mills will doo this exact thing when starting mid program if you are not VERY carefull in how you write your code, AND how you start your search. I don't know of a max RPM field in the tool registry, but I think that I will look. Pretty sure "not" tho.

    I have had it start up at high RPM with a real long and heavy tool once that was scary.


    I'm guessing that the tool had an application there.
    From my desk I cannot tell if they were morons for using it.
    You guys must be much smarter than me.


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


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